DavidGraham
Veteran
They made only two AMD generations after dropping NVIDIA, then stopped making GPUs completely for either brands.
Never claimed they did.
Why did it take him almost six months to announce?
Not a single thing I said is wrong.
EVGA terminates relationship with NVIDIA; cites disrespectful treatment
- Thread starter Below2D
- Start date
I'm extremely skeptical with respect to that graph and wonder how they derived that, especially with the context of the crypto boom of the last 2 years. EVGA isn't a publicly traded company and so we do not know there finances but other AiBs are and have to report.
This is PC Partner which is an Nvidia AiB (you might know them more from brand names such as Zotac).
PC Partner
www.pcpartner.com
PC Partner revenue by product segment - VGA = 13570 , Other = 1889. VGA revenue as percentage = 87.8%.
2020 Revenue = 7,762
2021 Revenue = 15459
YoY revenue growth = 99%
2020 Gross Profit = 795
2021 Gross Profit = 4287
YoY gross profit growth = 439%
Proportional growth in terms of profit/revenue is several times higher than Nvidia reported during the same time period.
There seems to be this narrative that some parties are pushing trying to alleviate AiBs of their part in profit taking off the crypto boom.
People seemed to have missed these posts.
Numbers from Gigabyte: https://www.gigabyte.com/FileUpload/TW/SiteMap/83/images/20220412.en.pdf
In "2021" their numbers skyrocket and they had a 3x higher gross margin over 2019. Like PCPartner Gigabyte numbers dont match Peddie's...
In "2021" their numbers skyrocket and they had a 3x higher gross margin over 2019. Like PCPartner Gigabyte numbers dont match Peddie's...
Silent_Buddha
Legend
EVGA and NVIDIA To Split: EVGA Won’t Make Next-Gen NVIDIA Cards
www.anandtech.com
Uh...?
Has been tried once before? This was how things were normally done for many computer graphics companies. ATi used to build their own graphics cards. Later they started to contract for a portion of their graphics cards to be made by another company while still selling them under their name. It wasn't until the 2000's that ATi even allowed their cards to be sold by AIBs.
AIBs at the time only made lower end commodity cards using chips by Cirrus Logic, Tseng, etc. Number Nine, ATi, Rendition and others all originally made their own chips and boards and exclusively sold them to end customers.
The reason that the switch was made to all contract manufacturing (AIB) was the costs associated with distribution and sales to brick and mortar retailers combined with decreasing margins in the graphics card industry.
Amusingly enough that was in large part due to the disruptive efforts of NVidia making cheap, affordable and capable graphics cards that adhered to and promoted completely open standards of operation. Anything proprietary was publicly and loudly bad mouthed by NVidia at the time. Now they still make capable graphics cards but they no longer make cheap, affordable graphics cards that promote completely open standards of operation. The NVidia of the 90's and early 2000's would absolutely hate the NVidia of today.
Hard to blame them, however, they are a company whose main goal is to make money and they are making gobs of money because consumers are willing to give it to them.
So, it'd be amusing if NV, who is the most responsible for the explosion in successful AIB graphics card makers would end up being the death of AIB graphics card makers because of their desire for high card prices to support high margins.
Basically a complete 180 from how the company flourished and became popular after the NV1 debacle.Regards,
SB
Eh they just wanted to slyly attack Glide's domination with some bad mouthing propaganda. And probably knew they wouldn't be successful building their own API at that point because that thing was coming to an end because Direct3D was getting useful and gamer hardware was now good enough to support OpenGL.
More recently they have actually gotten involved with open source driver development to a degree. After years of people reverse engineering nForce and GeForce hardware. Undoubtedly because there is money to be made there now. They worked with Nouveau to support GK20A for example.
More recently they have actually gotten involved with open source driver development to a degree. After years of people reverse engineering nForce and GeForce hardware. Undoubtedly because there is money to be made there now. They worked with Nouveau to support GK20A for example.
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Speculations are fine, but sometimes all you need to do is listen.
1. We asked why would you walk away from Nvidia and the answer was that it's about respect
2. In talking to EVGA the company told us point blank this is not a financial decision it is a principled decision
Lets recap: One man's decision to forego 90% of revenue is not based on financials.
Speculate that. I mean WTH?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV9QES-FUAM&t=490s
1. We asked why would you walk away from Nvidia and the answer was that it's about respect
2. In talking to EVGA the company told us point blank this is not a financial decision it is a principled decision
Lets recap: One man's decision to forego 90% of revenue is not based on financials.
Speculate that. I mean WTH?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV9QES-FUAM&t=490s
Should it be EXVGA now? (Stolen from a comment on Reddit, but I liked it.)
arandomguy
Regular
It's also worth mentioning that given the context of what we are terming the effects of the crypto crash as it pertains to the GPU market should've been know by April. Crypto profitability started declining early in 2022 and demand for hardware (factoring price) already started waning. Retail is the end of the supply chain and would also be the last to be affected.
For example -
www.techspot.com
Nvidia by April had also started it's "Restocked and Reloaded" event - https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/n...graphics-cards-are-now-in-stockannounces.html
Which was in conjunction with partners - https://eu.evga.com/articles/01557/nvidia-restocked-reloaded/Default.asp
As such it would be unlikely that there weren't indicators that far upstream (at the manufacturing level) by April (realistically likely even earlier) that GPU demand was falling in correlation with crypto demand fading. Especially as, albeit still conjecture, that it's likely AiBs at the very least had some dealings with crypto customers above the retail level.
For example -
GPU Availability and Pricing Update: April 2022
It's time for our monthly graphics card pricing update and in overly positive news, the trend towards more affordable GPUs has continued. We're inching ever closer to...
www.techspot.com
Nvidia by April had also started it's "Restocked and Reloaded" event - https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/n...graphics-cards-are-now-in-stockannounces.html
Which was in conjunction with partners - https://eu.evga.com/articles/01557/nvidia-restocked-reloaded/Default.asp
As such it would be unlikely that there weren't indicators that far upstream (at the manufacturing level) by April (realistically likely even earlier) that GPU demand was falling in correlation with crypto demand fading. Especially as, albeit still conjecture, that it's likely AiBs at the very least had some dealings with crypto customers above the retail level.
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DavidGraham
Veteran
I think that seals the deal of why EVGA chose to call it quits, right after the crypocrash, It's very naive to think this is not about finances and money, when it's so blatantly is.
Seems like a rash decision that’s based more on emotions than reason and logic.
Nvidia won’t inform AIB of the MSRP until it’s announced on stage. Probably because it’s only the way to eliminate the leaking of pricing beforehand. EVGA did state that Nvidia provides placeholders which is probably enough for AIB to work out costs and margins on their products.
Nvidia won’t allow prices over MRSP. Why would they? For the last two gens, crypto has created a situation where demand outstrips supply. So it would only encourage makers to manufacture nothing but premium models. Even if the premium model offered no tangible value over stock models, they would be gobbled up all the same. It’s one thing for second hand sellers to price gouge, it’s another for Nvidia to allow board partners to do it.
Was Nvidia killing EVGA bottom line? Not enough for EVGA to immediately feel the need to layoff employees to protect the business. EVGA’s wallets are deep enough to keep 100s of employees around with no clear plans for a bunch of them and no intense motivation to find other revenue streams to keep those employees productive.
EVGA just seems pissed that Nvidia wouldn’t allow them to capitalize on the crypto craze outside of the increased volume. Higher retail prices probably would have resulted in 100s of millions of dollars in additional profit. Plus EVGA has to contend with the crash and growing inventory with no help from Nvidia.
Most level headed CEOs when faced with an untenable business partner that generates a ton of revenue, will try to strategically maneuver away from that partner while minimizing the risk to their profit and revenue. This is exactly the opposite of what EVGA has done. I feel only for the employees who will be negatively affected by this decision.
Nvidia won’t inform AIB of the MSRP until it’s announced on stage. Probably because it’s only the way to eliminate the leaking of pricing beforehand. EVGA did state that Nvidia provides placeholders which is probably enough for AIB to work out costs and margins on their products.
Nvidia won’t allow prices over MRSP. Why would they? For the last two gens, crypto has created a situation where demand outstrips supply. So it would only encourage makers to manufacture nothing but premium models. Even if the premium model offered no tangible value over stock models, they would be gobbled up all the same. It’s one thing for second hand sellers to price gouge, it’s another for Nvidia to allow board partners to do it.
Was Nvidia killing EVGA bottom line? Not enough for EVGA to immediately feel the need to layoff employees to protect the business. EVGA’s wallets are deep enough to keep 100s of employees around with no clear plans for a bunch of them and no intense motivation to find other revenue streams to keep those employees productive.
EVGA just seems pissed that Nvidia wouldn’t allow them to capitalize on the crypto craze outside of the increased volume. Higher retail prices probably would have resulted in 100s of millions of dollars in additional profit. Plus EVGA has to contend with the crash and growing inventory with no help from Nvidia.
Most level headed CEOs when faced with an untenable business partner that generates a ton of revenue, will try to strategically maneuver away from that partner while minimizing the risk to their profit and revenue. This is exactly the opposite of what EVGA has done. I feel only for the employees who will be negatively affected by this decision.
arandomguy
Regular
Just to clarify this. The issue isn't Nvidia doesn't allow prices over MSRP. That isn't even the case as otherwise every single AiB has been breaking that for years (or decades) unenforced. The issue they stated was that there is a price ceiling that Nvidia does not allow partners to go over. This would really only affect what partners can offer in terms of more niche specialty products. This ceiling also isn't exactly low with no room to work with either it seems, EVGA for instance has (or had) a RTX 3090 at $2200 ($700 or 46% over MSRP) or a 3070 at $720 ($220 or 44% over MSRP).
Personally I see this specific issue as a bit mixed.
On one hand there is a problem in that Nvidia themselves are affected depending on the board partners actions, even if that might mean just a niche specialty product. For example see some of the negative reaction towards AMD when MSI revealed an extremely high end $1500 motherboard for AM5 even though the existence of that specific model doesn't actually affect the vast majority of buyers and the people complaining. That's also a problem with headline reactions and click baiting as well nowadays.
On the other hand it would be interesting and might actually be wanted for some high end/specialty buyers that truly want something unique. Maybe some rich tycoon wants a diamond encrusted graphics card for instance.
Then again on the other hand at least in practice it seems the ceiling is rather high? Asus's Noctua RTX 3070 was $830 MSRP ($330 or 67% over MSRP) and the Asus Gundam ROG RTX 3090 was $2500 ($1000 or 67% over MSRP, maybe 67% is the limit?). I'd be interested to know what type of actual product they were prevented from producing due to the limit? Actually diamond encrusted maybe? Disney/Marvel/Star Wars or popular anime licensing?
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arandomguy
Regular
EVGA is reportedly so sick of working with Nvidia that it's going to stop making graphics cards altogether
The decision is said to be about "respect."
www.pcgamer.com
Pretty conservative and generic response as you'd expect.
It'll be interesting though if they say anymore in the future especially if do get asked regarding this such as surrounding the upcoming product launch and possibly at Q3 earnings releases.
itsmydamnation
Veteran
Why even post this? i went and looked at it , in effect you are lying. Where does it show GPU revenue vs profit.
This is all about market cap , NV are about/are getting smashed as Gross Margin comes down from its crazy highs , NV is going to fight for every last point , looks like they are willing to have causalities. Over the last year they are down 37.5% in market CAP compared to 25% of AMD
You’re right it doesn’t break out GPU specific profit. What other product does Gigabyte sell that could explain the massive increase in margins from 2020 to 2021? Between this and the PC partner numbers it does seem that AIBs did very well for themselves during the pandemic.
An excellent article by Igor on this EVGA debacle:
www.igorslab.de
Thanks God, good journalism still exists
EVGA pulls the plug with a loud bang, but it has been stewing for a long time | Editorial | igor'sLAB
If you want to (or have to) separate, then there are two ways to announce this: one emotionless and one where you once again seek the big stage. EVGA chose, what a coincidence, the time shortly before…
www.igorslab.de
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