The continued existence of other AIB vendors is proof enough for me that EVGA’s problems were EVGA specific. If AIB margins and profits are terrible why are Gigabyte, MSI and ASUS and less popular brands like PNY still in the game?
EVGA terminates relationship with NVIDIA; cites disrespectful treatment
- Thread starter Below2D
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The continued existence of other AIB vendors is proof enough for me that EVGA’s problems were EVGA specific. If AIB margins and profits are terrible why are Gigabyte, MSI and ASUS and less popular brands like PNY still in the game?
If it wasn’t clear from my post - that’s exactly what I meant. Something else was going on. You don’t normally shutter an otherwise profitable business just to make a point.
That said, there are a ton reasons why EVGA could have been unprofitable whereas the other AIBs aren’t. Poor leadership, inefficient design process, pricing on production, high overhead, and so on. I’m not saying they were unprofitable - again, I have no idea. But it would be the only straightforward explanation I can think of. If that wasn’t the case, clearly something else was going on.
DegustatoR
Legend
What's the point of me retelling what Steve think when you can watch his videos first hand?Took you a while to come back with a generalization without any examples when asked for specifics.
AFAIR he thought that crypto mining played a big role in this decision.
You are claiming something and disputing others' actual quotes. So you need to back it up. If not, stop making these claims.
DegustatoR
Legend
I've already answered this.
If you look on Glassdoor you'll find complaints about Andrew Han micromanaging and being unwilling to delegate. Dating back to well before the GPU department was closed. They're private so they don't list finances, but their publicly traded competitors made absolute bank during crypto and covid shortages (e.g. gigabyte made 13B TWD profit in 2021, up from ~2B per year up til 2019). And Andrew is certainly no spring chicken.
My take? He got a 10-11 figure (TWD, not USD... still plenty) liquid net worth from the shortages and decided to retire. But he's too much of a control freak to hand over the reigns, so he shuts down the business. Not wanting the bad press for destroying his employees livelihoods he blames it all on nvidia.
Anticipating replies: I'm by no means claiming nvidia are perfect angels or anything. But it doesn't make sense that only EVGA can't make a relationship with nvidia work, and likewise that they wouldn't try to partner with AMD or Intel instead of shutting the whole thing down.
My take? He got a 10-11 figure (TWD, not USD... still plenty) liquid net worth from the shortages and decided to retire. But he's too much of a control freak to hand over the reigns, so he shuts down the business. Not wanting the bad press for destroying his employees livelihoods he blames it all on nvidia.
Anticipating replies: I'm by no means claiming nvidia are perfect angels or anything. But it doesn't make sense that only EVGA can't make a relationship with nvidia work, and likewise that they wouldn't try to partner with AMD or Intel instead of shutting the whole thing down.
No you haven't. You make vague claims and back them with nothing.
DegustatoR
Legend
Yes, I did. The fact that you don't like the answer doesn't make it "vague".
No, you haven't, as others have pointed out.
Here's all your posts on the matter.
Where in your posts do you see any links, quotes or literally anything but yourself to back your claims?
DegustatoR
Legend
You need a link to GN videos?
Yes, and more specifically to timestamp supporting your claim, or even a quote from Steve. It's your job to provide backing for your claims, not others to dig them for you.
DegustatoR
Legend
Again, Steve made a couple of videos on the topic. They are relatively long and his thoughts on the matter are spread across them so "timestamping" anything in them isn't a good idea. You should watch them in full.
Since you apparently need me to link them here they are (I'm pretty sure they are linked in this old thread already but anyway):
It is you who found what I've said wrong so it is in fact your job to prove that is so and not mine to prove otherwise.
You've quoted two sentences from Steve as if there was nothing else said by him on the matter.
More so what you've quoted doesn't prove that I'm wrong at all as the complaint being valid and it actually being the reason to quit GPU market are two completely different things.
Which is what I've said to you already but apparently you didn't understand that and continue with this weird crusade you have.
Well now, hold on -- I'm not sure if I fully understand what you said here... But what it looks like is, if you say something wrong, it's someone elses' job to prove you're wrong? That's not how it works. If you say a thing is a fact, you get to defend a thing and provide sources rather than just your own words.
To that end, you've now provided sources. To be clear, these sources are editorial sources, and while I have a mountain of faith in Steve, it's still his (very professional and well thought out) opinion on the matter. I think it's a reasonable opinion, and is well supported, but still an opinion nevertheless.
There's likely no perfect ending to the current questioning of EVGA's exit from the GPU AIB space. Turning away literally billions of dollars of business is a hard place to be, so the end result wouldn't be just so simple as "NVIDIA is a bunch of pricks and we just don't like making billions of dollars." Somewhere in there is a monetary factor, one of sufficient size to cause serious business disruption to the point where closing the entire line of business was a better profit margin than keeping it.
It very well could be NVIDIA is a bunch of pricks, but having been in several Fortune 500 and larger shops over my decades of employment, that really can't be the only reason.
DegustatoR
Legend
This is exactly how it works. If you think that what I've said is wrong then you must prove it, not me. I can provide the basis for my words - which I did in the second or third post on this matter - in which case it will turn out that I was in fact right.
IIRC GN was essentially the carrier of the news of Evga leaving GPU business so in this case it's a bit more than just an editorial.
Also this whole exchange has started with me saying that I don't believe that what Evga said was the actual reason for them to leave the GPU business. Note the "I" and "believe" in there. It's not my job to confirm my believes to anyone and when asked on why I have them I forwarded people to Steve - who also didn't seem to believe that the public Evga claims were the actual - or maybe the main or even just the only - reason for what happened.
The rest is just a huge waste of time initiated by the usual local "non-fanboys" who are always aggressively anti-Nvidia in all matters involved.
So, no that's actually not how it works. Simplest example: You cannot tell a judge you own an asset and it is now true unless someone can disprove it.
Proof of claim is upon the claimant, period, end of story. This is how functionally everything legally binding in society works.
This isn't necessary, and you need to stop it. People can have opinions that aren't based in some theoretical religion where they worship a chip manufacturer -- or not.
I claim herewith you only ever love and have loved AMD,. and cannot possibly have any positive thoughts or interest in any other manufacturer's product. There, I've now said a thing that is unequivocally true and you'll have to somehow prove to all of us it's false. And you can't, because any "proof" (quotes intentional) you try to bring will be libeled and categorized as lies, propaganda, and gossip.
See how that works? It doesn't.
DegustatoR
Legend
Didn't realize we are in court and you are the judge.
I've said how it works, you're free to disagree with me but I don't owe any explanation to you or anyone for what I believe really happened.
The unnecessary part was in Kaotik's second message in this exchange. So please direct all this to him, not me.
It does actually. That's fine, you can believe whatever you want, I don't see any need to disprove your belifs - especially since I don't have any means to. Which is why me personally wouldn't have started this whole exchange at all. Now go back a page or two and check who did.
We don't have to be, this is just how discourse works. The claimant is who supports their claim; I was simply giving you the easiest possible example to understand.
You are welcome to believe what you like; this does not make your claim accurate or supportable. I can claim that the planet Earth is perfectly flat and believe it until I die; I would also be wrong in that belief.
I'm the mod, not you. Know your role or find yourself on vacation quickly.
If you want to talk religious beliefs (whether it's to do with hardware or not) go post it in the RPSC forums.
DegustatoR
Legend
It is also completely unfit as an example here.
That's fine. I've already directed everyone to Steve's videos on the topic. If his claims are also inaccurate and unsupportable then there's also the Jensen's claim (i.e. the one from the other party).
Everyone can believe whatever they want on this topic (but that does affiliate you with some side if you choose one), it's the idea that someone is wrong while someone is definitely right which should be abolished in such conversations.
To put it even simpler: no one here (or at GN for that matter) knows what really happened - or at least is at liberty to disclose it.
I watched one of the GN videos @DegustatoR posted. Steve is mostly speculating that miniscule GPU margins weren't worth getting constantly dicked around by NVIDIA. The part about NVIDIA locking down VBIOS development was 
Speculation on NVIDIA being dicks seems entirely reasonable, and yet at the same time seems like insufficient singular reason to close down a multi-billion dollar business. Which then gets us back to the point Broopster made earler:
I feel like this pretty much sums it up, as best as anyone here is going to be able to find.
I feel like this pretty much sums it up, as best as anyone here is going to be able to find.
