Editorial On "Is Wii Next-Gen?" (answer: no)

[thenefariousone]

And how do you know ps3 and x360 will be the leading platforms? ps3 isnt even out yet and x360 is selling bad in japan and europe and is only selling decent in the usa.

The fact is you dont know wich console is going to be the leading platform yet. It might as well become wii with its low cost development and low cost hardware.

The facts are:

1)GTA didn't sell well in japan for starters regardless of the fact it was on the ps2. So no decision to release the game will be based on sales in Japan.

2)the developer has already stated they will be releasing versions for the xbox360 and ps3 exclusively next year.

And they have good reason to do so: Based on past history, GTA sold extremely well on the ps2 - so there's a huge audience for the game there. It also sold quite well on the xbox,the psp, and the pc as well, so all of those platforms should see versions first.

The gamecube version was cancelled.

 

[iNoV]

The facts are:

1)GTA didn't sell well in japan for starters regardless of the fact it was on the ps2. So no decision to release the game will be based on sales in Japan.

2)the developer has already stated they will be releasing versions for the xbox360 and ps3 exclusively next year.

And they have good reason to do so: Based on past history, GTA sold extremely well on the ps2 - so there's a huge audience for the game there. It also sold quite well on the xbox,the psp, and the pc as well, so all of those platforms should see versions first.

The gamecube version was cancelled.

Based on what?? They never gave GC a chance. On top of that releasing exclusively on the to next gen platforms severely hampers the chances of the games selling as well as they did on PS2 gen hardware.

 

[thenefariousone]

Based on what?? They never gave GC a chance. On top of that releasing exclusively on the to next gen platforms severely hampers the chances of the games selling as well as they did on PS2 gen hardware.

There's no official reason to date as to why the GC version was canceled, so your guess is as good as mine.

Naturally there will be more current gen consoles than next gen ones when GTA4 is available, however there's more to the story than merely releasing the game to the platforms with the best chance of selling well.

There are the usual reasons:
1)their vision of the game requires next gen hardware.
2)they're being paid to create exclusive next gen stuff.
3)less competition on next gen platforms this early in.
4)the opportunity to create a new IP or re-invigorate an old one by putting it on a next gen system.

 

[iNoV]

There's no official reason to date as to why the GC version was canceled, so your guess is as good as mine.

Naturally there will be more current gen consoles than next gen ones when GTA4 is available, however there's more to the story than merely releasing the game to the platforms with the best chance of selling well.

There are the usual reasons:
1)their vision of the game requires next gen hardware.
2)they're being paid to create exclusive next gen stuff.
3)less competition on next gen platforms this early in.
4)the opportunity to create a new IP or re-invigorate an old one by putting it on a next gen system.

None of those points relegates the wii from being a candidate for seeing a version of the game. I mean while you can argue publisher may not want to have to remake a game from the ground up yada yada yada, the simple truth is they do it all the time, for the mobile and portable versions, so i dont see why it should be a problem for wii, especially when the wii version should in theory be cheaper to make than the other 2 consoles.

And frankly i feel that publishers gave up far too easily on the GC audience thats potentially 20 million gamers they just ignored, and i feel nintendo unfairly gets the blame for that as well. I just hope the same doesn't happen with wii, the ignoring the userbase part i mean, where the blame will fall this time if it happens remains to be seen.

The

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Your trying to claim the outcome of the next gen war will be decided by gta? Though gta probably will have some impact, I dont think alot of people will buy a console only for gta. PSP sales didnt pick up much with the release of gta so I dont think it will make a hugh impact for x360/ps3. Besides that NOA has already talked with rockstar so I wouldnt bet my money on never seeing gta come to the Wii (though I dont count on it).

And nintendo is also aiming on a bigger market than just regulair gamers. Gta may sell 10million, and may cause 5million people to buy either x360 or ps3 but if nintendo publishes something like brain training or nintendogs for the Wii they will already beat that number probably and if Wii sales keep up (or beat) ps3/x360 sales I dont see a reason why publishers wont look at Wii. Even if it sells less, they will have a bigger profit margin because of lower development costs.

 

[Powderkeg]

Based on what?? They never gave GC a chance.

Honestly, it was based on 2 factors.

1. Nintendo's demographics didn't fit the game.
2. 3rd party sales of M rated games on the GCN were virtually non-existent.

 

[sfried]

Honestly, it was based on 2 factors.

1. Nintendo's demographics didn't fit the game.
2. 3rd party sales of M rated games on the GCN were virtually non-existent.

Well that's likely to change with Wii.

 

[Powderkeg]

Well that's likely to change with Wii.

Yeah, I heard that song and dance just before the GCN shipped too.

Nothing will change unless the fans of the system change their buying habits. They would have to ignore the tried and true rated E Nintendo games and buy more Teen and Mature rated 3rd party games instead.

Considering the #1 reason I hear for people buying a Wii is access to Nintendo's classic titles, I don't see that happening, do you?

 

[fearsomepirate]

Honestly, it was based on 2 factors.

1. Nintendo's demographics didn't fit the game.
2. 3rd party sales of M rated games on the GCN were virtually non-existent.

...which might have been different if someone had given the GC a chance. In the first year, there were 3 M-rated games: Eternal Darkness (not advertised, confusing box art and description), REMake (actually sold fairly well considering how dated it felt and the fact it was a remake), and Turok: Evolution (there's a reason Acclaim went bankrupt).

 

[Powderkeg]

...which might have been different if someone had given the GC a chance.

It might have been different if there was a demand for 3rd party games in general as well.

But how many 3rd party games sold over a million copies on the Gamecube?


People buy Nintendo because they want Nintendo games and nothing else. People who want 3rd party games buy something else, usually a Playstation branded console. You can say that developers didn't give the Gamecube a chance, but the criticism that Nintendo owners don't give 3rd party games a chance is equally as valid.

Developers need a reason to give a Nintendo console a chance, and Nintendo fans haven't given them the most important reason of all. It's nearly impossible to have a profitable major 3rd party game on a Nintendo console.

 

[pc999]

I dont know if this is a trend to continue but it seems that for now the Wii is one of the favorites for horror games with more games planned than the others (RE:UC, Sadness, Necro-nesia while on the 360/PSe there is only the RE5).

It seems that they are giving a chance to Wii this time, lets see how it ends.

 

[Powderkeg]

I dont know if this is a trend to continue but it seems that for now the Wii is one of the favorites for horror games with more games planned than the others (RE:UC, Sadness, Necro-nesia while on the 360/PSe there is only the RE5).

It seems that they are giving a chance to Wii this time, lets see how it ends.

And Possession, Clive Barker's Jericho, Alone in the Dark, Clive Barker's Demonik, and Harker. If you want to include first person horror games there is Condemned and if you want to be a bit looser about what you consider horror, there is Dead Rising, FEAR, and Bioshock.

Of course that's just for the 360. I don't know what the PS3 is getting.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

And Possession, Clive Barker's Jericho, Alone in the Dark, Clive Barker's Demonik, and Harker. If you want to include first person horror games there is Condemned and if you want to be a bit looser about what you consider horror, there is Dead Rising, FEAR, and Bioshock.

Of course that's just for the 360. I don't know what the PS3 is getting.

Alan Wake probably fits in that list too.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

It might have been different if there was a demand for 3rd party games in general as well.

I think demand isnt the problem, pleny of GC owners would like to have games like gta available. But because of some 13 yeard olds constantly screaming GC is ''kiddie'' no dev released more mature games on GC.

 

[pc999]

And Possession, Clive Barker's Jericho, Alone in the Dark, Clive Barker's Demonik, and Harker. If you want to include first person horror games there is Condemned and if you want to be a bit looser about what you consider horror, there is Dead Rising, FEAR, and Bioshock.

Of course that's just for the 360. I don't know what the PS3 is getting.

I forgot a few (thought too much in RE/SH like games).
Possesion is headed for Wii too (althought since we didnt hear nothing since then and some of the tech features may seems strange (?), I will pass it), Harker is going too Wii too. But you are right about the others.

Anyway IIRC this iss much more than GC ever had planned (ED+RE0/4).

 

[fearsomepirate]

It might have been different if there was a demand for 3rd party games in general as well.

But how many 3rd party games sold over a million copies on the Gamecube?

How many non-shovelware 3rd party games were released within the first 12 months after Cube's launch? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Within the first year after launch, the Gamecube 3rd-party selection was like a "Who's Who" of the worst cross-platform games. After seeing what the Gamecube was capable of with Rogue Leader, a craptacular port of Spyhunter isn't going to cut it. After a year of generally horrible cross-platform software with bad graphics and broken controls, cross-platform games gained a reputation of being junk.

If you frequented Nintendo boards back when the RE4 port was announced, a lot of Nintendo fans decided not to buy the game on the assumption that the graphics engine would be dumbed down for easier portability to the PS2, and that the PS2 would get far more content. Thankfully, they were wrong about the former (but would have been right if RE4 hadn't basically been completed), but they were right about the latter, and this before the announcement of Assignment: Ada! "Cross-platform" on Gamecube was synonymous in most people's minds with "Crappy 4-bit textures, no water effects, unstable framerates, mediocre lighting, broken controls, and reduced content." You can't blame the fans for that. Blame the total crap that developers were putting on shelves.

Developers need a reason to give a Nintendo console a chance, and Nintendo fans haven't given them the most important reason of all.

Because developers generally haven't given them a reason to buy their games. To get a spoiled Nintendo fan to buy your game, you have to put in some extra effort to make it not suck and have decent graphics. This is far, far beyond the ken of most developers. Certain 3rd-party games sold quite well on the Cube, and no one seems to understand that it's because they didn't suck and got decent publicity.

Publishers and analysts think that games should sell simply because they're on the shelf.

 

[theafu]

About 10-20 Million sellers that were 3rd party I saw a list at ign once, but I will have to look for it again. Fearsome's point about shovelware is right and this is 3rd generation as n64 and gc saw tons of it so 3rd party developers are in a whole nintendo consumers see them digging not nintendo in terms of content they push. Lastly where do people get the idea nintendo consumers don't buy 3rd party games. I think 70% of my cube collection is 3rd party, not saying everyone is but my friends are more like 30%-50%. Also how do 3rd party developers expect GC sales to ever take off when the crappy ports come out months after the ps2 and xbox versions? Any way I slice it when it comes to actual titles themselves 3rd parties take a bulk of blame for the gc and n64's problems with sales.

 

[Powderkeg]

I think demand isnt the problem, pleny of GC owners would like to have games like gta available. But because of some 13 yeard olds constantly screaming GC is ''kiddie'' no dev released more mature games on GC.

It's not just rated M games that suffered, it was all 3rd party titles.

If Wikipedia is to be believed, then the Gamecube had a total of 12 3rd party games that sold over 1 million copies. Out of those 12, 4 were Sonic games, and 3 were Resident Evil games. Not one single sports game, and only 1 racing game made the list.


The Xbox had 29 million + selling games in comparison, covering virtually every genre.


Now, if you were a 3rd party developer and you weren't making a Sonic or RE game, which system would you support to maximize your sales? The system with 29 million+ 3rd party sellers, or the one that had just 5 (Not counting Sonic or RE)?

And I don't see things changing with the Wii. Developers will give it a shot at launch, but long-term support relies on 3rd party game sales, and Nintendo fans just don't seem interested in buying 3rd party games.


BTW, if you want to look at it another way, not counting Sonic and RE games, the 360 is only 1 game behind the Gamecube in 3rd party million+ sellers right now.

 

[Powderkeg]

How many non-shovelware 3rd party games were released within the first 12 months after Cube's launch? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Within the first year after launch, the Gamecube 3rd-party selection was like a "Who's Who" of the worst cross-platform games. After seeing what the Gamecube was capable of with Rogue Leader, a craptacular port of Spyhunter isn't going to cut it. After a year of generally horrible cross-platform software with bad graphics and broken controls, cross-platform games gained a reputation of being junk.

Yeah, games like Madden and Splinter Cell were real shovelware titles, but you know, Mario Party 4, 5, 6, and 7 don't count as Shovelware, right? And that Luigi's Mansion was so awesome that it really deserved to be the 5th best selling game on the system too.

And last I recall, the Gamecube has been around for 5 years. What's your excuse for the other 4?

If you frequented Nintendo boards back when the RE4 port was announced, a lot of Nintendo fans decided not to buy the game on the assumption that the graphics engine would be dumbed down for easier portability to the PS2, and that the PS2 would get far more content. Thankfully, they were wrong about the former (but would have been right if RE4 hadn't basically been completed), but they were right about the latter, and this before the announcement of Assignment: Ada! "Cross-platform" on Gamecube was synonymous in most people's minds with "Crappy 4-bit textures, no water effects, unstable framerates, mediocre lighting, broken controls, and reduced content." You can't blame the fans for that. Blame the total crap that developers were putting on shelves.

And just imagine how much worse it's going to be with the Wii going against the PS3 and 360. Talk about cross platform games having to be dumbed down for Nintendo's system!

Because developers generally haven't given them a reason to buy their games. To get a spoiled Nintendo fan to buy your game, you have to put in some extra effort to make it not suck and have decent graphics.

Well, don't expect things to change for the Wii then. The same type of games from the same developers will be made this gen as last, and the Wii is noticably lacking in hardware which will force developers do tone down and dumb down their games for the Wii.

You have just given the prime reason why things will be no different this generation. Developers aren't going to bend over backwards and waste tons of resources to make Wii games when they could use those resources and efforts on the 360 and PS3 and be virtually guaranteed better sales.

Catch 22 my friend. Nintendo fans have to buy the games in order to convince developers the extra effort is worth it. Without the sales there is no incentive for them to bother trying.

 

[Powderkeg]

Any way I slice it when it comes to actual titles themselves 3rd parties take a bulk of blame for the gc and n64's problems with sales.

Yeah, it's always easier to blame someone else.

BTW, should I just ignore all of the "good, they weren't a very good developer anyways" comment every time a developer announced that they were dropping Gamecube support? Bah, I suppose that was the 3rd party developers fault too, right? I mean, who wants an EA sports game, right? They are just crappy shovelware games anyways. Madden barely sells on the other systems.