Downfall of Xbox 360 user-generated content

[AzBat]

I know I'm not the first or only person to know that Microsoft has fallen short of it user-generated content ambitions. So far only Forza 2 and Halo 3 are on the only 2 games that seem to have delivered somewhat in that regard. But till now it wasn't really known why this is the case. Seems like Microsoft are really scared about people using the content for evil and not good. LOL

Anyway, the news comes from a blog on MTV's site of all places. They are talking with developer Metanet Software, the company behind N+ on Live Arcade. Evidently they had an ambitious user-generated level creator that allowed users to publish their levels freely on the Marketplace. But at the last minute Microsoft pulled the plug on the feature and required to the developer to gimp the feature. Seems like Microsoft's fear is that there is no way to police the content. So they're afraid of things like male organs popping up so to speak. LOL Evidently these fears are due to Forza 2's user-generated content and the policing that Turn 10 has had to endure. These fears could be responsible for UT3 not supporting user-generated content. I have a really bad feeling that if Microsoft doesn't figure out a way to do this on regular and Live Arcade games soon, then people will have to turn to XNA when goes public late this year. Let's just hope they don't forbid it there too.

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008...ng-in-n-—-we-were-devastated-says-co-creator/

Tommy McClain

 

[one]

Why do commercial developers such as Metanet Software have to turn to XNA in which you can't sell a game?

 

[AzBat]

I was specifically talking about end-users going to Community Games for user-generated content. It'll happen there because of less restrictions. And yes, you can sell your game there. No need for a publisher unless you want to be on Live Arcade. Final details on how to sell your game will be available probably once the beta is done.

Tommy McClain

 

[PARANOiA]

A "Youtube" system should work for MS as well as it does for Google. Have all content available, then allow for "reporting". Once an item is reported, it would need a manual review (and be unavailable until such time as it is reviewed by an MS official)... once it has been reviewed and approved, it should no longer be unavailable to the public and possibly no longer reportable. Users who get items blocked get a couple of chances before being altogether banned.

Granted there were all sorts of nonsense in Forza such as swastika cars and whatnot. It's too bad that people have to be protected from their own dumb selves :/

 

[one]

And yes, you can sell your game there. No need for a publisher unless you want to be on Live Arcade. Final details on how to sell your game will be available probably once the beta is done.

Really? I read this interview with Chris Satchell and he says you can't commercially distribute a game in Xbox LIVE Community Games. Is there any reference to their future commercial plan in regards to Community Games?
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20080222/sat.htm
Answering the first question about whether it's possible to make money,

Mr. Satchell: Game developers can't obtain money directly by the distribution through the Xbox LIVE Community Games. Our feeling is that we've given XNA game developers a way to gain honor rather than a way to earn money. I think it's a very pleasant thing for game developers that there is a way to let 10 million XBL users have fun with their games.

 

[AzBat]

Really? I read this interview with Chris Satchell and he says you can't commercially distribute a game in Xbox LIVE Community Games. Is there any reference to their future commercial plan in regards to Community Games?
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20080222/sat.htm

Straight from the FAQ at Creators.XNA.com forums...

Q: Can I sell my game on Xbox LIVE Community Games? What is the revenue split?
A: We are still finalizing the business models and revenue sharing details of Xbox LIVE Community Games at this time. More information will be available closer to the retail consumer launch this holiday.

They also have been talking about it in the sticky thread about Community Games.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

A "Youtube" system should work for MS as well as it does for Google. Have all content available, then allow for "reporting". Once an item is reported, it would need a manual review (and be unavailable until such time as it is reviewed by an MS official)... once it has been reviewed and approved, it should no longer be unavailable to the public and possibly no longer reportable. Users who get items blocked get a couple of chances before being altogether banned.

The XNA guys have been talking about the peer review system intended for Creator's Club Members and that there will be an end-user review system similar to You-Tube. Unfortunately they didn't have a lot of details, but in the sticky thread I linked earlier they've been talking more about it. Hopefully this will be the kind of system that will be implemented for user-generated content in full games.

Tommy McClain

 

[one]

Straight from the FAQ at Creators.XNA.com forums...

Thanks. However, I doubt all of the Community Games are immediately accessible to the commercial scheme. For example, you make a popular game on it and start to think about making money. Then you have to enter a publishing contract which is, except for how it's called as one of the programs in the Community Games, not much different from what XBLA developers are signing. Also from the FAQ,

Q: Does this mean Xbox LIVE Arcade is going away?
A: No. The design and goal for the Xbox LIVE Community Games is to provide a distribution channel for enthusiasts to share homebrew creations freely with their peers and friends. Some games may “graduate” to a full Arcade contract as the Dream Build Play game winners have done, but the idea is to offer a different venue for game creativity.

 

[archangelmorph]

Thanks. However, I doubt all of the Community Games are immediately accessible to the commercial scheme. For example, you make a popular game on it and start to think about making money. Then you have to enter a publishing contract which is, except for how it's called as one of the programs in the Community Games, not much different from what XBLA developers are signing. Also from the FAQ,

To be completely honest MS *have* to offer a commercial revenue scheme for XNA content otherwise any & all really good games won'ty have any incentive whatsoever to stick with the platform & can just as easily take there IP to Wiiware, PSN or XBLA..

This would only cause the platform to sink into a stink of poor - mediocre quality games which nobody really cares about playing.. not good..

 

[infinity4]

The only reason I thought MS doesn't adopt UGC is because they don't make any money on it.

 

[valioso]

The only reason I thought MS doesn't adopt UGC is because they don't make any money on it.

and because it opens them up to lawsuits

 

[Demirug]

XBLA is already XNA compatible. You can use XNA to write XBLA games and earn money.

 

[PARANOiA]

The only reason I thought MS doesn't adopt UGC is because they don't make any money on it.

Forza? Halo?

I guess you thought wrong

 

[mrcorbo]

Could be worse. Look at Nintendo's policies vis a vis user-user interaction. It does seem to be a tough problem.

If you allow users complete freedom to create content without having some form of moderation you risk allowing an "E"-rated game to become an "AO"-rated game with a few button presses. If you do intend to moderate the content then you are committing to spend time and resources to moderate the content available indefinitely.

If you aren't willing to accept that first scenario it does make sense that you would then be selective about which projects you were willing to support with the latter option.

 

[infinity4]

Forza? Halo?

I guess you thought wrong

I was thinking about restricted movement of content across users.
Is there any features that allows you to share your content with people in these games? Because that is important in some games like PES 2008.

 

[PARANOiA]

I was thinking about restricted movement of content across users.
Is there any features that allows you to share your content with people in these games? Because that is important in some games like PES 2008.

Sure - haven't you seen any of the custom cars in Forza? Heard of Forge? Both have crazy cult followings.... especially Forza. There were some amazing looking cars built by users in that game. You then can pop your cars on the auction house if you wanted for money, or just race against your friends. I had a Windwaker mini (bought, I am not really that artistic!)

MS really hit the nail on the head in those two games for user generated content ... but I can
see how it's tough keeping permanent staff trying to stop kids from downloading a penis-designed car when there's no huge financial benefit from it. It would be far more preferable if people stopped being wankers in the first place.

Having said that, youtube still has disgusting stuff uploaded every now and then (rape, murder, etc) and that site seems to get away with it *shrug*

 

[AlNom]

What's wrong with putting up a disclaimer on a User Content area on XBL

 

[mrcorbo]

What's wrong with putting up a disclaimer on a User Content area on XBL

There's still a widely-held perception that consoles are for kids and some parents seem to believe that they should not have to be concerned with what their kids are playing. Look at what Fox News tried to pull with Mass Effect. Now imagine if they actually had something factual to get people riled up about.

 

[FutureCTO]

Free extended content - Reduces new sales = Shall not be encouraged

My opinion is that there is more to it than censorship.
User content extends the life of a game and lowers the turn over rate for new sales.
Microsoft's proudest claim about their Xbox360 business is that their consumers spend more on games than the competition.
Is it any wonder why they don't encourage or allow free content from anyone?
Even when the content is from the game creators like Valve and Bungie.

Valve has reiterated that it hopes to release extra maps for Team Fortress 2 as free downloads for PS3 and 360 owners. "The maps will come to the console versions," VP of marketing Doug Lombardi told Eurogamer at a recent Left 4 Dead event. "There's a bit of work that makes sense for us to bundle them up and release them as packs." Asked whether that still meant for free, Lombardi said: "Oh, for free, definitely, as much as we can. You know, we don't have full say over that, but we have some say over how that works.

Continues at: http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=93883

Bungie wanted the Heroic Map Pack to be FREE!
Yet has Microsoft even allowed free content creation for a game that has made them over $500 Million Dollars?

And as for the new maps, we got mixed reactions to some of the revelations. Price for example, was a common complaint. That’s not something we decide unfortunately – but in the long term, like those Halo 2 maps they’ll eventually be free of charge. So if you’re patient, you can wait it out. And although the analogy is done to death, it’s the same price as a couple of lattes.

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=13019

Don't be fooled by business and consumer relations using censorship as an excuse.
The issue extends a lot further than censorship could possible encompass.
It is a decision rooted in Microsoft financial earnings model.
Free playable content doesn't earn them anything.
Final Answer.

Think beyond the surface,
FutureCTO

 

[AlNom]

All that shows is that the publisher has control over what gets charged...

There's still a widely-held perception that consoles are for kids and some parents seem to believe that they should not have to be concerned with what their kids are playing. Look at what Fox News tried to pull with Mass Effect. Now imagine if they actually had something factual to get people riled up about.

And what about the Parental Controls that MS already introduced?