Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2016 - 2017]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Rangers, Jan 7, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Clukos

    Clukos Bloodborne 2 when?
    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,462
    Likes Received:
    3,793
    DF are saying the image is relatively stable when stationary but has aliasing during motion, could very well be something with their AA or how they reconstruct the image. The result is very blury but it seems to be stable and aliasing free for the most part.
     
    chris1515 likes this.
  2. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,984
    Likes Received:
    5,801
    Location:
    London, UK
    Do you mean 720p?
     
  3. chris1515

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,527
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    Location:
    Barcelona Spain
    720p
     
  4. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,166
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Hopefully it's worth the resolution sacrifice.

    720p is completely fine to be upscaled to 1080p. Most video I watched are 720p and it's still looks great.
     
    DSoup likes this.
  5. Billy Idol

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,940
    Likes Received:
    768
    Location:
    Europe
    But the source of the 720p videos you watch might be 1080p or higher and then down sampled to 720p, thus supersampled?? Upscaling in this case should work better than upscaling a source res of 720p, right?
     
  6. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,984
    Likes Received:
    5,801
    Location:
    London, UK
    Yup. I think people get obsessive about the numbers but it's the end result that matters. Quantum Break looks incredible. I don't care what coding voodoo they did with numbers smaller than 1080 if the end result looks that good.
     
    #186 DSoup, Mar 19, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  7. Clukos

    Clukos Bloodborne 2 when?
    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,462
    Likes Received:
    3,793
    Numbers matter when it comes to image quality though, even if it's not the only factor. I agree that QB ends up looking better than any 720p title, their AA is really good in 95% of the footage shown so far (the other 5% being jittering artifacts and visible ghosting in high contrast areas). Performance might actually be a bigger problem than resolution in the later parts of the game, the game can't hold it stable in these relatively quiet initial first 2 chapters.
     
    chris1515 likes this.
  8. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,984
    Likes Received:
    5,801
    Location:
    London, UK
    Numbers also matter when it comes to bandwidth. You need to nip and tuck where you can to make things happen at all.
     
    turkey likes this.
  9. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,166
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Hmm from the DF article, the anti aliasing in QB is good enough.

    Sure in 720p video there is no aliasing. But if QB can deliver the awesome overall visual quality, with good enough AA, 720p can be good looking.

    Sure it will be even better if it's also high res and luckily, people do able to experience it as long as they have awesome pc.

    Btw real life looking stuff is more tolerant to low res than artificial stuff with sharp edges.

    Human video at 720p still looks nice in 1080p display. But 720p anime looks blurry in 1080p display.

    But there also other factor.. Different upscale method give fast my different result.

    720p anime when upscaled using EVR or madvr (forgot the settings), still looks awesome in 1080p.

    So. If QB have good enough visual quality, including decent AA, it could look good in 1080p when upscaled using proper algorithm.

    From the trailers, looks like QB nailed it.
     
  10. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,513
    Likes Received:
    5,158
    Not the video@720p vs videogames@720 talk again?

    Video at 720p looks good because it's pretty much downsampled from the original render at INFINITE RESOLUTION - reality.

    Rendering at 720p is different.
     
    Billy Idol likes this.
  11. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,166
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    It still looks good though
     
    Billy Idol, London-boy and DSoup like this.
  12. steveOrino

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    140
    Yeah, no kidding. All the previous footage I have seen of the game looks like its been re compressed 5 times over.

    I mean the game looks good enough for resolution output (a bit too soft for my liking) but other rendering elements like shadow draw distance/resolution, texture filtering, low resolution reflection and pop-in hurt the overall consistency of the visuals. Frame buffer size is the least of its issues imo.

    But then again the gameplay elements of the time mechanic interest me more than the graphics of QB.
     
  13. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,513
    Likes Received:
    5,158
    Oh it looks amazing, just making a point :)
     
  14. nightshade

    nightshade Interwebz Hijacker !
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,391
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Sometime last year or the year before there was rumor going on that QB runs at 720P. Then later people started saying it's more around 900P. Now we have a final pixel count and seems like the rumour was true after all.

    What I find disappointing is that the shadow draw distance and texture filtering are poop, eventhough it's running at that resolution and has dips in framerate.
     
  15. Starx

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    148
    Further adding to the visual quality is ambient occlusion adding self shadows and depth to edges, contact parts of a scene. The team use a screen space solution here Line Sweep Ambient Occlusion which works from the depth buffer and looks to be a pretty good solution with again some signs of it screen space process when occluded but this is true of pretty much all ambient occlusion methods but it looks good here. Geometry is handled separately and more inline with HBAO techniques with it all calculated at 720p (as many portions of a games render are made up of various resolutions) to help reduce its cost down to less than 1.4ms on the XboxOne GPU, this is also where some got confused with the game rendering at 720p which it does not, at this point 1080p is the games target output.

    http://nxgamer.com/previews/quantum-break-technical-preview
     
  16. Ike Turner

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,884
    Likes Received:
    1,759
    Yeah can't figure how DF pixel counted 720P. Maybe they should have waited for an answer from Remedy before..but it's admittedly a slow week end..so they needed those clicks..
    Anyway some of the press who attended the preview where told that QB was 1080P on Xbox..lets wait for an official word..
     
    Starx likes this.
  17. Clukos

    Clukos Bloodborne 2 when?
    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,462
    Likes Received:
    3,793
    If the game is indeed running at a native 1080p it's the softest looking native game by far. Like, it makes The Order look sharp soft. DF contacted Remedy though so if the game is indeed running at 1920x1080 we should know very soon!

    A few example shots of The Order, which was criticized and dismissed by some for its "soft" look
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #198 Clukos, Mar 19, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
    chris1515, djskribbles and Billy Idol like this.
  18. powdercore

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    29
    EG even showed the Remedy presentation on how they do lighting. The lighting and other effects are done at a resolution of 720p but the game itself runs at 1080p. Isn't this typical of game development?

    It's even stated in the presentation. NX Gamer says the effects are done at 720p but the final render is 1080p native. EG clearly caused a ton of confusion with this 720p revelation just weeks before the game is launched. Heck, they could've done this analysis a long time ago and asked Remedy a long time ago but nope let's do an article on 720p with two weeks from release. They effectively poisoned the well with a very good looking game. Yes it's soft for certain people, but the AA is so good that even EG is having a hard time finding aliasing edges.

    And I have no idea how they concluded 720p based on the the pictures that they provided. So it seems they concluded on 720p based on the lighting and the softness. Don't forget The Order 1886 looked pretty soft and that was rendered in native 1080p.
     
  19. powdercore

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    29
    My understanding is the final render is 1080p native but the lighting are done at 720p. I think this is typical of game development to use different resolution for different render targets but the final output is 1080p native. Anyway, I think EG did a poor job of communicating this. They just say the image is too soft to be 1080p and the pictures they showed I couldn't tell since there's no aliasing. Picture softness doesn't mean the final render is not 1080p native as can be seen with The Order 1886.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...