Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2015]

[Arwin]

Or they mean that the game is done in 2/3rds of its 16.6 per frame rendering budget, and use the remainder to buffer input, predict / correct for latency etc. Which makes me wonder - in theory, if you can afford it, would it make sense for a fighting game to wait for the first 6.6ms (maybe doing networking stuff) and then take the controller state and render the frame immediately afterwards? Would that give a faster response to controller input? Otherwise the minimum response time would be between 16.6 and 32.2 (one frame detecting the controller input, next frame renders the new graphics), but now it could go as low as 10ms with 26.6 as maximum? Does that make sense at all?

 

[turkey]

The reason the game operates at 90fps is to roll back for their multiplayer services.

So update runs at 90 (net code and controller inputs), fixed update runs at 60(animations, active frames, damage etc), at least that is the best way I can describe it. The additional 30 frames allows the game to roll back any mistakes it makes over online play; ultimately decreasing lag and increasing accuracy without impacting the games 60fps. It's quite good online!

Is that GGPO

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discuss...-new-current-very-strange-xbl-network-results

If thats the case then the game has unrendered logical frames as a buffer but the time delay is still real and may affect things, however whilst in combo the possoble actions of your opponent are far smaller so perhaps some sort of prediction is also used or a delay in the breaker is fine as it acts as a clean break to play anyway.

 

[turkey]

Bahh can no longer edit.

Was going to say how will this be affected by pc, fluctuating performance etc etc.

Atm the game expects locked 60fps no matter what, pc may not give this so will the net code work as well, will it lead to some matches seeming less smooth if the pc starts to loose frames for whatever reason.

 

[Jay]

The source is a tweet, kept short and so missing details. 90 fps on rendering would result in uneven frame pacing with every third frame not being shown, or a constant tear alternating between top and bottom third of the screen as you see only two thirds of every frame. Ergo it doesn't make sense to render at 90 fps unless they're talking PC.

43min in.
Was talking about XO .
Talking about the engine/netcode, not onscreen animation. Easy to understand the confusion though due to the use of fps.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Bahh can no longer edit.

Was going to say how will this be affected by pc, fluctuating performance etc etc.

Atm the game expects locked 60fps no matter what, pc may not give this so will the net code work as well, will it lead to some matches seeming less smooth if the pc starts to loose frames for whatever reason.

The game code must be dirt simple in a fighter. No sophisticated AI or complex physics or living worlds. So I expect the game code can run at 90 Hz on the simplest CPU, and everything else can be scaled to machine specs.

 

[turkey]

I was thinking more about the unexpected or probably to be expected on pc. Folks running apps in the background (torrent, twitch, teamspeak) or poorly timed AV work rather than the average pc cpu not being able to cut the grade.

Anyhow i think i should watch the video as it probably talks about all that

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not much they can do about that. Must be a common problem for PC, though in eSports I'm sure they keep everything optimal.

 

[I.S.T.]

The PC version doesn't even support gpus with more than 2 gigs of VRAM so nah, more like a port of the old console versions and a bad one at that.

...WELL, I GUESS THAT'S ONE PORT I WON'T BE BUYING

Jesus, is there any version of the game worth a good goddamn?!

 

[iroboto]

Is that GGPO

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discuss...-new-current-very-strange-xbl-network-results

If thats the case then the game has unrendered logical frames as a buffer but the time delay is still real and may affect things, however whilst in combo the possoble actions of your opponent are far smaller so perhaps some sort of prediction is also used or a delay in the breaker is fine as it acts as a clean break to play anyway.

I'm not sure to be honest, the details weren't fully described to by the Iron Galaxy. But that's my understanding: the idea is to gather, arrange and confirm the input and character data at 90Hz, and the game operates on that data at 60FPS.

 

[Arwin]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...arted-2s-ps4-teaser-leaves-us-hungry-for-more

 

[Clukos]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...arted-2s-ps4-teaser-leaves-us-hungry-for-more

Can't wait to see this:

@ 1080p60

 

[Arwin]

Actually Uncharted 3 could hugely benefit from having better AA than the original, where MLAA didn't always work great (the French forests in the early levels of Uncharted 3 for instance were a bit of a pixel-crawl nightmare, but could look fantastic in this remaster)

 

[Phil]

Can't wait to see this:

@ 1080p60

Indeed, though to be honest, it's worrying at the same time too. If I end up playing the remasters close before Uncharted 4, I might hate the new one for settling for 30fps. It's a tricky situation, but dishing out these beautiful old games at perfect 60fps framerate might actually inspire more people to want framerate over visuals (or at least tick them off to a point that they become a bit more conscious what framerate is and why it is important).

 

[Globalisateur]

Indeed, though to be honest, it's worrying at the same time too. If I end up playing the remasters close before Uncharted 4, I might hate the new one for settling for 30fps. It's a tricky situation, but dishing out these beautiful old games at perfect 60fps framerate might actually inspire more people to want framerate over visuals (or at least tick them off to a point that they become a bit more conscious what framerate is and why it is important).

You don't say. More so if they still use the triple frames setup of TLOUR only at 30fps in UC4, the input lag could be quite high indeed.

I really think this time ND will completely miss the usual next gen feeling people usually have playing their freshly released games. I think UC4 as it is now, 30fps combined with this quite never seen before strong push to filmic artstyle & effects, is the biggest mistake they have done since Jak 2 & Jak 3 IMO.

They should have built UC4 from TLOUR impeccable foundations!

 

[3dilettante]

Can't wait to see this:

That tree had it coming.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

should be called something like Hz

Hertz (Hz) is absolutely the correct metric for anything where you are measuring the number of cycles (frames, game engine runs) per second. I've tried using Hz before but it seems to cause confusion whereas the nonsensical frames per second seems to convey more meaning for gamers.

C'est la vie..

 

[Clukos]

You don't say. More so if they still use the triple frames setup of TLOUR only at 30fps in UC4, the input lag could be quite high indeed.

I really think this time ND will completely miss the usual next gen feeling people usually have playing their freshly released games. I think UC4 as it is now, 30fps combined with this quite never seen before strong push to filmic artstyle & effects, is the biggest mistake they have done since Jak 2 & Jak 3 IMO.

They should have built UC4 from TLOUR impeccable foundations!

I think that's a bit of a hyperbole. Considering they are going for 30 SP/60 MP it's understandable that they want to make the most visually pleasing single player campaign to end the series. Don't forget, they are going for real-time cutscenes this time and if they wanted to make 60 for gameplay and 30 for cutscenes that would mean that there is a jarring disparity between gameplay and cutscenes. All previous Uncharted games and TLOU were fine at 30hz on Ps3, i don't see why this will be an exception. And just watching how polished the game is more than 6 months away from release probably means that the 30hz refresh rate will be 99.9% locked, which is something important gameplay wise.

 

[Globalisateur]

I think that's a bit of a hyperbole. Considering they are going for 30 SP/60 MP it's understandable that they want to make the most visually pleasing single player campaign to end the series. Don't forget, they are going for real-time cutscenes this time and if they wanted to make 60 for gameplay and 30 for cutscenes that would mean that there is a jarring disparity between gameplay and cutscenes. All previous Uncharted games and TLOU were fine at 30hz on Ps3, i don't see why this will be an exception. And just watching how polished the game is more than 6 months away from release probably means that the 30hz refresh rate will be 99.9% locked, which is something important gameplay wise.

I couldn't care less about cutscenes in videogames whether at 20fps (TW3 ), 30fps(UC) or 60fps(TLOUR). No difference for me because those aren't interactive. You don't play a cutscene.

I'd be really worried if the framerate of the cutscenes imposed ND the framerate of the real game. Really, really worried.

 

[Clukos]

It's a story driven game though, cutscenes are a big deal for Uncharted 4. Plus, i am sure none of us will say "what if it was 60 fps" when we get out hands on it, do you think ND will fail to deliver after their past success? I don't buy that. And besides, such decisions are not made lightly, i am sure they argued a lot till they reached the 30/60 target for SP/MP, and it is probably for a good reason.

 

[Nesh]

It would be interesting if they add a framerate unlock mode. The E3 demo performed 30fps flawlessly so I wouldnt be surprised if the game is capable at running above 30fps with unstable framerate