Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2015]

[temesgen]

I'm more than happy for Sony to surrender reserved resources to games but then I don't use my PS4 for anything other than games. If I'm in the UI it's because I'm starting it up, shutting it down or switching between games. I have other (and more capable) devices for everything else.

I think there are more than enough resources to provide a decent TV experience with less memory and cpu reserve. I have a Nexus Player and it does a fine job with SlingTV for example. PS4 runs Netflix very well already, heck many TVs and BD players have built in Netflix functionality which is serviceable.

My point being that these services do not have to be resource intensive relatively speaking.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

My point being that these services do not have to be resource intensive relatively speaking.

I fully agree.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Digital Foundry: Performance Analysis: Just Cause 3
Cause for concern?

 

[DrJay24]

So either the CPU isn't the bottleneck for the destruction or the XB1 is losing some performance to something like the VM or OS.

 

[AlNom]

or just cause

 

[London Geezer]

I love you

 

[Cjail]

Shouldn't it take a deeper analysis and deeper knowledge of the engine/game to say the CPU is causing all the problems?

 

[Recop]

So either the CPU isn't the bottleneck for the destruction or the XB1 is losing some performance to something like the VM or OS.

I would say it's not the only bottleneck since there are plenty of alpha effects during destruction phases.

 

[steveOrino]

Quick 180 degree turns (non action) also showed issues with the X1 version while the PS4 was fine. Probably memory related.

 

[Shortbread]

So either the CPU isn't the bottleneck for the destruction or the XB1 is losing some performance to something like the VM or OS.

I will go with ROPS (lack of) and ESRAM constraints, before going the OS/VM route.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Yeah, it sounds more like a result of slower main memory speed. Especially spinning around would stress the streaming of assets far more. Explosions themselves are unlikely to be CPU limited unless there's just an abnormal amount of physics simulation going on, and if it was, it would likely be limited similarly on both machines.

The bridge collapsing after an explosion is a good example of where there's additional physics simulation processing, and we see the same performance impact on both machines. Unsurprising since the CPU performance of both machines is the most similar aspect between them.

Regards,
SB

 

[Scott_Arm]

I will go with ROPS (lack of) and ESRAM constraints, before going the OS/VM route.

Seems likely.

 

[Clukos]

Digital Foundry: Performance Analysis: Just Cause 3
Cause for concern?

X1 version looks pretty bad, wondering why that's the case considering the drop in res.

Edit: FPS analysis of the Ps4 version from gamersyde

While it looks more stable, it seems like the only way to keep the framerate in check is to not explode too many things at the same time, which is kind of the point of the game.

 

[Karamazov]

Choppy framerate during explosions brings that cinematic feel. It's an artistic choice i'm sure.

 

[Scott_Arm]

While it definitely has some issues, it never looks really bad enough that it would be unplayable. THey've definitely gone for something "next-gen", using the new Havok Destruction middleware. They took a huge risk, and the execution isn't perfect, but I commend them for it. Maybe the middleware itself has a lot of room for optimization, since they're one of the first companies to use it. Xbox One obviously has some other issues, more likely related to transparencies, overdraw.

 

[dogen]

While it definitely has some issues, it never looks really bad enough that it would be unplayable. THey've definitely gone for something "next-gen", using the new Havok Destruction middleware. They took a huge risk, and the execution isn't perfect, but I commend them for it. Maybe the middleware itself has a lot of room for optimization, since they're one of the first companies to use it. Xbox One obviously has some other issues, more likely related to transparencies, overdraw.

According to havok's website it was used in battlefield 3 and the last of us.

edit - apparently also uncharted 3, battlefield hardline, and other games.

 

[Goodtwin]

Xenoblade Chronicles X looks like a perfect example of a game that is developed with a clear understanding of the compromises that need to be made to hit the target performance. The developer did an excellent job of managing its resources and coming up with a product that not only offers the largest open world game on any console, but also has great art direction that helps mask the hardware's limitations.

 

[Scott_Arm]

According to havok's website it was used in battlefield 3 and the last of us.

edit - apparently also uncharted 3, battlefield hardline, and other games.

I was just going by Avalanche's engine vid for Just Cause 3 where they said they were an early adopter. Could be wrong then.

That said, Uncharted 3 and the Last of Us definitely didn't do physics simulation during gameplay at anywhere near that level, and BF3 and Hardline only did to a limited extent. This could be the first real test of the middleware's performance.

 

[Recop]

coming up with a product that not only offers the largest open world game on any console

This sentence makes little sense to me... it's a design choice... indeed, Gotham City can't be as large as TW3's world.

Also, games are more expensive on more powerful hardware.

 

[Goodtwin]

This sentence makes little sense to me... it's a design choice... indeed, Gotham City can't be as large as TW3's world.

Also, games are more expensive on more powerful hardware.

I'm not understanding what any of what you just said relates to what I posted. I am saying the developer did a good job of balancing their resources. Its very easy to let projects this large get away from you, and end up with significant framerate problems. Open world games always have to make some compromises compared to linear games. If the Witcher 3 tried to implement the same quality assets and rendering techniques Uncharted 4 is using it would probably fall flat on its face.

Games aren't inherently more expensive on better hardware, better results can actually be achieved with less expense with better hardware. The reason the cost continue to increase is because the quality of the assets has drastically improved over the years, and the quantity of assets to create is exponentially more than before.