Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2012]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by AlBran, Dec 17, 2011.

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  1. kagemaru

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  2. KKRT

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    Its eurogamer's parent site, You didnt know about it? :p
     
  3. kyleb

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    What player decisions in the games couldn't be carried over to a different engine?
     
  4. Rangers

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    The characters themselves for one?

    I mean, apparently as it is there is some bug in ME3 where you cannot import your character from ME2's face, unless you edited it in ME2. I heard a lot of griping about it from Jeff Cannata on Weekend Confirmed.
     
  5. nightshade

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    I didn't understand the "we didn't have enough memory for holster animation" comment made by devs.
    There are so many sequences in the game where your character isn't holding any weapon at all, and in some of them s/he is even wearing the armour, so why not just use this same animation set?
     
  6. kyleb

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    That's just a matter of ME3 not reading the format for the face variables saved by the original ME though, a bug as you said. Those player decisions along with all the others are a just a list of values within set arable ranges stored in the save file; what color are your eyes, what skills do you specialize in, did you let Wrex die or save him, and so on. What could prevent any of those choices from being read from save files and represented in a different engine, say CryEngine3. or Adventure Game Interpreter for that matter?
     
    #66 kyleb, Mar 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2012
  7. djdev

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    Cloud Gaming Face Off: Gaikai vs OnLive

    For those interested, Digital Foundry did a comparison article for 2 cloud services: OnLive and Gaikai. They both have different business models. OnLive is more like a retailer and Gaikai is utilized by publishers but will be allowing full game streaming soon.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-face-off-gaikai-vs-onlive

    Graphics settings/Image quality: Gaikai is the clear winner due to maxed out graphics settings
    OnLive is running games on low settings. Only plackpack titles can be maxed out.
    Gaikai is running games at max setting, which can be adjustable.
    Framerate and Performance: OnLive is the winner due to encoding video at 60FPS.
    OnLive is smoother since the video is encoded at 60FPS.
    Gaikai is less smooth and framerate dips are much more noticable due to lower video encoding rate. However, Gaikai mentions running their games at 60FPS in the datacenter in many articles. http://www.edge-online.com/news/gaikais-perry-cloud-latency-not-concern

    Compression Quality: Gaikai is the clear winner. Gaikai is using x264 software compression and OnLive is using a custom hardware encoder although both are rendering h.256 video.

    Gaikai seems to encode the game at a lower framerate in order to allow more video bandwidth for a boost in video quality. However, Gaikai did state that they were running games at 60FPS in the datacenter (http://www.edge-online.com/news/gaikais-perry-cloud-latency-not-concern). Also, Gaikai can use more bandwidth than OnLive however, it does hover around 5mbps on average from my personal test.

    Latency: Gaikai is the overall winner due to the varied location of their datacenters. However, there are some cases where OnLive can match the latency of Gaikai. Although, Gaikai was actually able to match console latency in some test concerning Bulletstorm (133ms).

    Overall, I would have to go with Gaikai for this Face-Off. However, both services can't beat the local PC experience.
    TL:DR: Gaikai is running games at max settings (which are adjustable)and has better latency than OnLive. However, OnLive has a much more stable framerate since they are encoding the video at 60 fps. OnLive has been running certain Playpass games on low settings like Assasins Creed. Also, OnLive has recently been in the habit of launching games at lower graphics settings than increasing them months after launch. I beleive this has to do with server capacity issues. This has happened with Batman Arhkam City and Saints Row The third. However, users can adjust graphics settings in Playpack subscription games.
     
  8. Laa-Yosh

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    I guess it's like this... There's a limited amount of RAM reserved for animations at any time. The game never loads all animations. You don't need to go from conversation to fighting on the Citadel, for example.

    ME3 added more animations for changing cover and rolling and climbing ladders. These all could be used in combat at any time so it's not an option to fetch them from DVD on the fly. Running around without any weapon requires a different animation. To make room for the above mentioned new anims, these had to be thrown out.

    So it's not just the clip of holstering a weapon but also all the walking/running animations without a weapon that had to go to make room for the new ones.

    BTW, armor or not doesn't really matter for the animations. Also, a lot of the animation is re-used for all aliens, even krogan have the same ones as salarians and Shepard. That's also why you don't see hanar, volus, elcor or keepers whenever there's combat, because they all require new clips for their custom skeletons as well.
     
  9. Laa-Yosh

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    I'm sure any game dev could list a dozen reasons immediately. Different animation systems, script languages, save file formats etc.
    Bioware would basically have to rebuild significant amounts of UE3 systems in the new engine, and spend all the money and time on customizing it for their needs, too. ME1 took several years of R&D to finetune UE3 for their needs...
    They can't restart from scratch and expect to finish on time before the generation is over. They're actually pretty lucky as noone could have foreseen in 2005-2006 that we'd still have X360s in 2012.
     
  10. kyleb

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    Sure things like different animation systems and script languages make moving the series to a different engine harder, but not in any way relevant to carrying over all the player decisions I've seen throughout the first two games anyway. If you can provide actual examples to the contrary, please share. As for save file formats, obviously the new game would have to be made to read the old format, but that's hardly a major undertaking.
     
    #70 kyleb, Mar 26, 2012
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  11. Prophecy2k

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    Perhaps now with the trilogy over the next ME game (if there is one) might run on frostbite 2.0. Especially since Frostbite 2.0 is next-gen ready (not that UE3 isn't too, rather just that moving to their own internal tech would save them royalty fees paid to Epic for using their engine). It would be in EA's interest to fund Bioware making such a transition imho.

    A comparison of MENext in FB 2.0 with ME1/2/3 would make for an interesting article indeed.
     
  12. nightshade

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    Well yes, but then it also limits the kind of scenarios you can have in game doesn't it?
    For example you can be talking and then immediately go into a fight, or for instance the fight in Chora's Den in Mass Effect 1 where you have to investigate something and then immediately find out that there are hostiles in the area and it seamlessly turns into a gunfight.

    But I guess Bioware made different design choices for this game.
     
  13. Mr. Domino

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  14. Rangers

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    That is an awesome idea for an article.

    One thing I'd like DF to do sometime, is check out latency on a console on an "average" HDTV vs Onlive or Gakai on a average PC monitor.

    HDTV's typically have a lot more latency than PC monitors, so I've always thought it's possible Onlive/Gakai could actually have less latency once you factor in the display than console games. It would need testing though. Obviously, local PC games should beat Onlive every time.

    I also really wish they had thrown some comparison screens/videos with X360 versions of games in there. They state Gakai version of AC looks better than console, but I'd like a little conclusive proof of such.

    Also as of when I just visited the article, none of the videos are working they all throw an error.
     
  15. tuna

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    Regarding the Wipeout interview, didn't the PSP Ridge Racer and Gran Turismo games do 60 fps?
     
  16. Arwin

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    Yeah there were definitely a few and also on the Nintendo handhelds. In fact the fighters on Vita are all 60fps I think.
     
  17. Gitaroo

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    still pretty impressive for a launch title though, only wish that they can improve the loading time......
     
  18. Sigfried1977

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    They are. And they are drop dead gorgeous to boot, especially Blazblue (which is far and away the game that comes the closest to its console counterparts. The bloom effect was toned down/axed from the polygonal backgrounds, but that's the only difference I could make out)

    Considering how stunning 2d art looks on the Vita, I'm really hoping for a Castlevania game by Igarashi. Unfortunately the Derp is far too strong with Konami for something awesome like that to happen.
     
  19. Sigfried1977

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    ... and give us Racebox and regular multi-player back. Seriously, what hurts 2048 the most is the shocking lack of options.
     
  20. HokutoNoKen

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