Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2011]

[MJP]

Heh, was just noticing at the beginning of the BF3 trailer how the silhouette of the viewweapon could still be seen at the starting point. It's bugging me.

Yeah it's pretty bad if you take a still shot...it looks like they're doing a simple velocity buffer output without doing anything to smooth the edges.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Comparison and best guesses

The brain works making comparisons and best guesses

This is why stereo video and audio is so important, my friend. Our brain has very complicated sections dedicated to "making comparisons and best guesses" from stereo image and audio. That is why the brain can get vastly more information from 3D input than 2D/mono. No comparison.

One thing I must disagree, and that is to say that mathematically precise control is possible. The brain makes sophisticated calculations at all times. It is amazing what calculations can be done with one neuron.

 

[(((interference)))]

Does anyone know why Bad Company 2 is using alpha 2 coverage on 360 but not on PS3? You'd think the 360 would have the advantage here, given eDRAM. Or perhaps it's just being blended on PS3 using the SPUs?

 

[N_B]

I believe repi said in a tweet that A2C was used because it was a look the artists liked. Don't know why it didn't carry over to PS3.

 

[assurdum]

Does anyone know why Bad Company 2 is using alpha 2 coverage on 360 but not on PS3? You'd think the 360 would have the advantage here, given eDRAM. Or perhaps it's just being blended on PS3 using the SPUs?

Wait, it isn't the exact opposite? I remember the foliage on 360 suffer of dithering and not on the ps3...

 

[Trejser]

Bulletstorm Face-Off

 

[betan]

Wait, it isn't the exact opposite? I remember the foliage on 360 suffer of dithering and not on the ps3...

A2C is the one that causes dithering.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Well, interesting to see a developer put extra effort into higher res textures and more/upscaled features for the PC version. Sure, Epic seems to favor working at a higher res anyway, maybe to get nice promotion material, but it still means some extra work...
Combined with BF3, it seems that publishers expect some uptake in PC gaming as the consoles begin to show their age? Maybe Steam really has grown to be a serious income source for them. Or maybe they're just probing the waters to see if there'll be a proper response...

 

[Neb]

Yeah I did not really expect this for some reasons. Glad to see they push and more than they did with previous Epic games. Seems there still is love in the air *brings out Visa card*.

Moving on to the PC game and it's clear that there's a pretty colossal visual leap over what we see on console. Geometry levels appear to be much the same, but everything else can be turned up to 11. The most impactful change is to the quality of the textures, but just about all of the key effects - including the light shafts - are significantly upgraded over what we see on the Xbox 360 version of the game.

 

[AlNom]

I believe repi said in a tweet that A2C was used because it was a look the artists liked. Don't know why it didn't carry over to PS3.

Yeah. You might compare it to observing the screen doors in a home as you move closer or farther away...

Anyways, I'm not entirely clear on the hardware implementation in RSX. It's definitely there on Xenos, but you could do it manually. There may also be some implication with Early Z being disabled on RSX, though I'm not sure if it's any better on Xenos. The other far out idea is that they may have experimented with MSAA at some point since FB1 was still a forward renderer.

edit: Perhaps it was just easier on 360 considering the edram...

 

[Boxercide]

I wondered why A2C was used on the PC in BC2.

 

[AlNom]

Well, at least on PC, you actually could choose to enable MSAA and smooth out the foliage.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Bulletstorm Face-Off

Something like that actually makes me think the game is a straight port from PC to consoles. X360 looks closer as the process is more straightforward, while PS3 version suffers due to the nature of the hardware and perhaps the publisher not wanting to delay the release of the game in order to get all features properly working. Or perhaps a strict budget didn't allow for the addtional overhead and work required to get PS3 version up to parity. After all it still suffers in performance despite lacking many of the advanced features present on both X360 and PC.

Regards,
SB

 

[Neb]

Though PS3 games usually have a lack of dynamic godrays or used in very limited situations if compared to games on 360. Maybe it is due to overdraw perfomance where 360 should be do better.

 

[N_B]

Though PS3 games usually have a lack of dynamic godrays or used in very limited situations if compared to games on 360. Maybe it is due to overdraw perfomance where 360 should be do better.

What other games are missing godrays on PS3? I only remember Borderlands having a similar effect missing.

 

[Neb]

I mean in general and including exclusives.

 

[Gitaroo]

bulletstorm definitely have it on PS3, judging by the demo. Borderland is missing something called flare out going with the setting in the PC version and bloom? I am pretty sure Cliffy B said "check out the new god ray tech" in the new UE3 when he was demoing gears 3 on stage last E3. Seems like it was only just added to UE3. Other 3rd party UE3 games are probably done by the dev themselves.

 

[corduroygt]

Real or fake, KZ3 has some spectacular godrays that shine on the dot-sight of your assault rifle, so it can be done on the PS3, probably with much more different techniques than what's done in UE3 though, and with a vastly different pipeline, it may not be easy to accomodate it. I am also surprised that there are still devs out there that target the PC first and foremost. I have a Civilization V steam code that came with my faulty Sandy Bridge motherboard that I didn't even bother to use yet...

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I have a Civilization V steam code that came with my faulty Sandy Bridge motherboard that I didn't even bother to use yet...

Don't, it's one of those games you start playing then realize it's midnight, but then you think just one more turn only to then realize it's 2 am, but then you think just one more turn only to have the sun come up, but then you think just one more turn... And then you wake up with keyboard face.

Regards,
SB

 

[Trejser]

Though PS3 games usually have a lack of dynamic godrays or used in very limited situations if compared to games on 360. Maybe it is due to overdraw perfomance where 360 should be do better.

God of War 3 have awesome godrays, even some attacks create godray casting light sources, you can even have 2 of them on the screen at once For multiplatform games, I know about: Far Cry 2, Just Cause 2, Crysis 2. I'm not sure about MOH, but it's running on the same version of UE3, no (with GI, cascaded shadows etc.)?

I always wondered what is the performance cost for godrays on consoles and what's the difference between this technology and volumetric lighting (like in Alan Wake)?