Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2011]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by user542745831, Dec 31, 2010.

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  1. user542745831

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    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-gt5-time-trial-blog-entry

    What about the native rendering resolution / AA / framerate in the full game for such cases?
     
  2. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    I recently popped in Forza 3 out of curiosity and I have noticed that it actually uses real time reflections. The reflections are very clean and cars are being reflected inside them.

    In comparison GT5's reflections miss some objects have a smaller drawing distance of the environments and cars arent being reflected. The reflections are a bit low res too

    What is PD using in GT? Cube maps? I though Cube maps have a static reflection but in GT the reflections change based on the environment and placement of your car all the time.

    Was this choice a result of technical limitation due to resolution and framebuffer limitations similar to what has hindered the shadow and transparency quality?

    I dont recall Digital Foundry touching the techniques used by Turn 10 and PD to achieve environmental mapping in their games
     
  3. Arwin

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    New article up comparing framebuffer grabs with HDMI caputes at various settings with some interesting results.
     
  4. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    AFAIK it is cubemaps generated in realtime with 'cube' having 4-6 faces to make reflection layer spherical. Then you can set how far it will trace objects to reflect and max/min size of objects to reflect. I am sure this is pixel and CPU taxing depeding on quality.
     
  5. nightshade

    nightshade Interwebz Hijacker !
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    GT does uses real time reflections, drive around a race track and you'll see banners and structures like the bridge in High speed ring being reflected on your car.

    Anyways GT uses a roof cam instead of hood cam like Forza. Its hard to tell but when you drive cars like Swift, you can see that you are using a roof cam. In any case Forza still has superior reflections which are probably full rez. They are as good as (if not better) than Dirt 2.

    I don't recall how the mirror was in Forza but in GT5 the mirror omitts a lot of objects frm the scene.
     
  6. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Yes but it is by using realtime generated cubemaps not ray tracing. Same with Forza games, all PGR games, NFS games etc. Flags, banners, scenery, animated textures are reflected on car at often same updaterate as rendering or locked 30fps.
     
  7. Arwin

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    The GT5 cockpit now typically has two mirrors, but the rear-view mirror and the driver-side side mirror. It's not full detail, but it's more than good enough now (way better than it was in GT5 Prologue, which also improved the detail in there with each of its three major updates).

    No comments on the DF article on the framebuffer against the HDMI output? With the variations of gamma levels that do not match on the 360, and the noise (barely visible, but it stands out in the digital analysis) on the PS3 Slim?
     
  8. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Their image comparision of GT5 photomode is interesting. The HDMI capture has less artifacts than games generated image. You can see it on the surface noise and for example the artifact on the chassis bend above the front wheel or left headlight. JPEG?
     
  9. KKRT

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    Yes, GT 5 is using quite heavy compressed JPEG in photomode ;\
     
  10. Arwin

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    It could be worse ...
     
  11. TheAlSpark

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    Quad Feature today:

    Comic: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-masseffectcomic Pretty neat feature allowing you to see what the comic is exactly and you can make your own choices. :p
    Demo vs Retail: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-mass-effect-2-ps3-demo-vs-final
    Face-Off with 360: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-masseffect2-face-off No time for PC version as I understand it, although there's still the original article from last year.
    Installation details: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-masseffect2-install-blog-entry
     
  12. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
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    The interactive comic walkthrough is a real treat, I've already sent it to a few people ;) You guys are really amazing.
     
  13. TheAlSpark

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    :) grandmaster's come out of the gate strong for 2011 I suppose. haha

    Considering that development was focused on the 360/PC SKUs, they've certainly done quite a decent job with texture fidelity and maintaining visual effects. I see the framerate drops as a fair compromise considering the battles are sort of a small aspect in the overall scheme when you're mostly just running around without explosions and whatnot.

    At the same time, I wonder how much main memory isn't being utilized on the 360 considering how close the two SKUs are. Or maybe the extra detail normal maps make up exactly that difference. They sure could have used higher res assets for general NPC suits and armour though (at least on PC).
     
  14. Laa-Yosh

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    A lot of the NPC assets are just repainted color textures and old normal maps from ME1. Almost all the mercs, civilians, krogan... The secondary character faces that have been generated with the customization tool used for Shepard are also kinda mediocre or even bad.
    The squad members, collectors, mechs and a few other assets, as well as Shepard's armor, are obviously newer and created with a better utilization of texture budgets (although the main characters obviously have more texture space). Liara's new model is also quite a lot better once you get to the Shadow Broker DLC.
     
  15. TheAlSpark

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    Ah interesting. Yeah, Liara did look better. I wonder if that replaces her in the main game before you do that mission in subsequent playthroughs.

    Would be nice if they had the time to update everything. The inconsistency there was my main gripe while watching all the dialogue scenes.
     
  16. Trejser

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    Xbox: 512MB - 32MB (OS) = 480MB available for developers
    PS3: 256MB + 256MB = 512MB - 50MB (OS, this number is from 09 - here) = 462MB available for developers

    18MB difference, or maybe more (backbuffer in EDRAM, AA)? :)
     
  17. Laa-Yosh

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    She's only updated once you move into the mission specific area AFAIK.

    Yeah, I'd settle for Shepard and the main team to remain the same if they can bring everything else up to a similar level. But there's probably going to be a bunch of new characters and enemy types anyway, and it's reasonable to hope that new assets are all going to kick ass.
     
  18. LightHeaven

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    Does DF have any face off for Two Worlds 2 between consoles and Pc?

    I would like to play on 360, but if the visuals and perfomance are subpar i'd get it on Pc anyways...
     
  19. Silent_Buddha

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    The thing is, it's not quite that simple.

    With PS3 using your numbers, you're always limited to.

    256 MB video RAM
    206 MB system RAM

    So it isn't a universal pool of RAM that you can utilize however you want. Saying developers have access to 462 MB is misleading and incorrect. They have access to the above amounts of RAM which aren't directly combinable as far as I know.

    With X360 you could have...

    200 MB RAM used for video
    280 MB Ram used for system

    Or

    300 MB RAM used for video
    180 MB RAM used for system.

    Or whatever combination a developer decides is most useful for their game.

    However, with that said, when doing multi-platform, I'm sure developers attempt to restrict video RAM useage to 256 MB in order to make things easier to port to PS3. So in that sense, what you said is roughly true.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  20. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    I thought that on the PS3, system ram can be accessed for video but video ram can not be accessed for system
     
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