DavidGraham
Veteran
Never said this is going to happen.
It doesn't need to challenge both of them combined, just challenge one or come close to it and it that would be enough ..
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Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
Which for most publishers isn't happening anymore, at least according to their financial filings versus say, random internet posts.
PC profits had reached console levels a few years back, but as sales on console move to digital as well as the rising costs of gaming capable PC hardware, consoles (each one) are once again distancing themselves from PC. Again, WRT profits.Revenue generation has been higher on console than PC for almost 2 decades now for publishers. It's just that digital sales allowed PC gaming to catch consoles for a few years when talking about profit generated.
This is for AAA game developers and publishers. For indie developers PC continues to be a haven versus consoles for "most" of them.
When not talking about AAA games, then regions like China and Korea generate a lot of PC revenue. But most of those games aren't sold in the west and most of them are of the F2P variety.
Regards,
SB
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Absolutely amazing tech, the particle system/vapor blew me away, then the scale of this game is huge. If this is what native next gen games are going to look like, i'm impressed with such a leap over current gen graphics. Somewhere i doubt we will see this kind of graphics/tech as a base next gen, but AAA exclusives probably will come close, if not match and/or exceed later in the generation.
Which for most publishers isn't happening anymore, at least according to their financial filings versus say, random internet posts.
Revenue generation has been higher on console than PC for almost 2 decades now for publishers. It's just that digital sales allowed PC gaming to catch consoles for a few years when talking about profit generated.
This is for AAA game developers and publishers. For indie developers PC continues to be a haven versus consoles for "most" of them.
When not talking about AAA games, then regions like China and Korea generate a lot of PC revenue. But most of those games aren't sold in the west and most of them are of the F2P variety.
Console gaming are moving to digital, more then before, but that doesn't mean they take that away from the pc gaming market. PC gaming is bigger then ever, and even though consoles are even bigger (combined atleast?), it is not something the market is going to ignore, hence the reason why more and more console games appear on pc.
Also, it wouldn't surprise me if the pc as one platform is the biggest of all, aside from mobile gaming, which is really taking over in sheer numbers of users.
I get that let's say the PS market generates more revenue then pc gaming, but it's not all doom i think. Both pc and console gaming are growing and are bigger then ever, none of these platforms have anything to worry about regarding games being released on them. What we will see with the coming generation is that PC gamers will (finally) have top upgrade hardware to keep up, this has always been the case bar the 8th gen which mostly didn't require much of upgrades.
With AMD competing in the CPU market, and now starting to do so in the GPU market aswell, prices aren't going to skyrocket like they did before either.
AAA games are being done with consoles in mind, this was already the case with the 8th gen. RDR2, death stranding are ported for example.
DavidGraham
Veteran
It's happening. Have you seen some of the latest Ubisoft reports?
PC is now Ubisoft's most profitable platform
https://www.pcgamesn.com/ubisoft-pc-sales-2019
CODMW setting sales record on PS4 and PC
https://www.businessinsider.com/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-launch-sales-records-ps4-pc-2019-10
CapCom considers the PC an important platform
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/capc...m-will-strive-to-further-expand-its-pc-sales/
In 2017 the total PC sales was almost as good as the two consoles combined vs mobile gaming
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/pc-games-sales-in-2017-are-almost-as-big-all-console-sales-combined/
The Witcher 3 is selling more on PC than either of the two consoles
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/the-...-percentages-revealed-for-2015-2016-and-2017/
A vast number of multi plat games sell better on PC than on Xbox One
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/repo...games-sell-better-on-the-pc-than-on-xbox-one/
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
I see you didn't bother to read what I typed, so it's no use responding to you on this anymore.
Regards,
SB
DavidGraham
Veteran
I read it well, either I lost track of your point or you didn't elaborate on it enough, please do If you could.
For the most part, you seem fixated on the notion that consoles are so far ahead of PC in terms of sales, which is not true.
Not true again, PC is neck and neck with Xbox One، or even above it, the Xbox One is one of the major consoles, and that's for AAA games, for general game sales, PC is equal to all consoles combined.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
For a certain few publishers PC does relatively well for most it doesn't. I was the first to point out a few years back when PC started to make a resurgence for some publishers. If you dig through some of the old sales threads you should be able to find some posts of mine when I still bothered to post tidbits from the Financial results of some publishers. Of interest was how PC compared to console as well the effects of digital sales on financial reports for some of the publishers. Especially as to its impact on operating income for consoles compared to PC despite PC revenue being lower than either console. Heck there's a post I made noting how Doom 2016 sold more on PC than it did on either console. It was one of the rare exceptions of a PC title selling more than on either console at the time.
Some of those links you posted were in the time frame where I had already mentioned that PC was at its peak (a few years ago).
UBIsoft does particularly well with PC gamers. But even then it wasn't until the year ending 2019 (typically Mar. 2019) that PC revenue managed to surpass the XBO. For the year ending 2018, even XBO sold more games than PC for UBIsoft. UBIsoft is basically the best case scenario for PC games. And again, it wasn't until the Mar. 2018 - Mar. 2019 FY that PC surpassed XBO. PC players really like For Honor and especially Rainbow Six Siege which brings in a massive amount of revenue for them.
If we look at EA games financial reports, it's much worse for PC compared to the consoles. EA is basically the worst case scenario for non-Japanese publishers WRT PC games.
I don't currently have the time to go through all of the various publisher financial reports to dig out the information for you. But for many publishers the trend of PC profits matching and sometimes exceeding console profits reversed starting about 2 years ago, IIRC.
I expect some but not all publishers to do relatively better on PC than console for the year ending 2020 (again generally in March) due to lack of big AAA titles and the new consoles being close. But even then most publishers are still going to have more console revenue than PC revenue.
If I have the time, I'll take a look once publishers start posting their Fiscal Year reports.
Regards,
SB
To be brutally honest, its in all of the publishers interest to promote pc and buying through their own stores, or through stores that take a smaller cut of their revenues, like epic game store. PC players hang onto old gpus because the games work. If the min spec makes a big jump because of the new consoles, people will line up to buy the $250-350 GPU that's available at the time, and that will probably be something like an RTX3060, or an AMD RDNA2 gpu. Console pricing will most likely cause pc prices to dip. A game that comes out a year or two after console launch shouldn't have issues if you can only turn on AO or GI with a ray-tracing enabled GPU.
Just because console users shift from physical to digital media doesnt mean the pc market will decline, or is in danger in any way regarding game releases. The platform is atm bigger then ever, there's money to be made there, even if it's less then on playstation. With all platforms sharing the same x86 architecture, and MS xbox platform scaling between generations more then ever, i doubt there is much to concern about. Ofcourse there has always been people who like to entertain the idea that a platform is in decline, or even dying, like back in 2012/2013 when mobile would take over consoles. Or the famous pc gaming is dying. Now we have the streaming tech being a danger to every platform.
If there is anything to worry about, it would be mobile gaming perhaps, as it is the fastest growing of all, with hardware there evolving very fast.
Exclusivity isn't what it once was either, RDR2, death stranding, detroit, and many other titles that would have never made an appearance during previous generations see the light on pc. Possibly even Horizon Zero Dawn and other sony exclusives. Digital stores like valves Steam, how much one might dislike them, are generating huge incomes, even the much hated EGS. The possibilty that Sony will have it's own PS Store is there (since we are speculating anyway).
Console gaming hasn't gotten cheaper either, 500 dollar boxes could happen from both sides, and paid subscriptions are a thing nowadays.
In short, i have heard, read and seen studies implying pc gaming (or any other platform) dying for atleast the past 20 years now. What happened since then is that all platforms have been only growing, with ups and downs here and there. Also, many game o both PC, console, and mobile.
If there is anything to worry about, it would be mobile gaming perhaps, as it is the fastest growing of all, with hardware there evolving very fast.
Exclusivity isn't what it once was either, RDR2, death stranding, detroit, and many other titles that would have never made an appearance during previous generations see the light on pc. Possibly even Horizon Zero Dawn and other sony exclusives. Digital stores like valves Steam, how much one might dislike them, are generating huge incomes, even the much hated EGS. The possibilty that Sony will have it's own PS Store is there (since we are speculating anyway).
Console gaming hasn't gotten cheaper either, 500 dollar boxes could happen from both sides, and paid subscriptions are a thing nowadays.
In short, i have heard, read and seen studies implying pc gaming (or any other platform) dying for atleast the past 20 years now. What happened since then is that all platforms have been only growing, with ups and downs here and there. Also, many game o both PC, console, and mobile.
PC >console revenue. huh?
I suppose if you combine all PC games streams together (subscriptions,the 1000s of indie titles etc) and all markets (huge in China/Korea etc) but if you look in the west at actual sales data I dont think thats the case.
Mate if this was the case then why do publishers often dont release a PC version of their games until months after the console version comes out?
Answer, To maximize profits
OK I just looked up ubisoft since , apparently they perform really well with PC titles, heres the most recent data for the last 9months
Console revenue 57%
PC revenue 27%
other revenue (mobile,Ancillaries whatever they are?) 16%
Like I say huh?
One specific console? Ok, Well amazing, I thought it was console vs pc. I’m guessing they also sold more than the wii, the vita, switch etc as well so you could in fact claim pc’s sell better than over 10 different platforms!
Ok just looked at Nielsen’s data
Premium games market by region 2019
PC
Europe = 2.4 billion
North America = 1.4 billion
Console
Europe = 4.6 billion
North America = 7.5 billion
Yes free to play is bigger on Pc, both though are dwarfed by mobile, which is more than all the other platforms together.
OK, watching them talk about games being improved when backwards compatible shortly after talking about ML linked together some things in my brain...
Remember this guy from Microsoft Game Stack talking about using ML to upscale textures in real time to make games smaller? https://wccftech.com/an-xbox-game-s...-res-textures-to-be-ai-upscaled-in-real-time/
What if it could also be used to uprez assets in old games when using backwards compatability?
Just a thought.
You could potentially bake the textures, so spend a little time up-ressing them without worrying about realtime performance. May also be able to throw some independent raytraced AO into the scene too.
Could Xbox Series X's 12 teraflop GPU deliver even more power than we expected?
Confirmed: RDNA 2 tech offers more performance than any AMD graphics card available today.
Is this the first attempt to comprehensively answer the big question? Fundamentally, what is next-gen? In Xbox chief Phil Spencer's latest blog for Xbox Wire, we get a smattering of tech specs for the new Series X, reaffirmation of a frictionless future for gaming thanks to solid-state storage and a reminder that as powerful as raw power is, technological innovation is just as important.
However, despite that focus on new ideas, there is still room for Microsoft to clarify and indeed emphasise the extent of the processing power crammed into the Xbox Series X GPU. In a GameSpot story at the tail end of 2019, Spencer invited us to 'do the math' based on the notion that the new console had twice the graphics power of Xbox One X and over 8x that of Xbox One. The implication was that the console packs a 12 teraflop GPU - but muddying the waters somewhat is the fact that innovations in GPU architecture meant that Microsoft wouldn't need 12TF to deliver 2x Xbox One X performance - our tests showed that a ballpark 9-10TF could conceivably get the job done.
The new blog clarifies the situation and it's only good news. With 12TF unambiguously confirmed, Microsoft may well have twice the basic level of GPU compute on tap, but actual gaming performance should exceed that handily. However, the firm goes further in explicitly stating that AMD's latest RDNA 2 architecture is at the heart of Series X, meaning that there may well be some further optimisations in the upcoming AMD Navi design implemented in the console that we are not yet aware of, simply because PC parts based on the latest architecture are not yet available for us to experiment with.
Read the entire DF Article on 12TF RDNA2 Xbox Series X here https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-xbox-series-x-power-play-analysis
Confirmed: RDNA 2 tech offers more performance than any AMD graphics card available today.
Is this the first attempt to comprehensively answer the big question? Fundamentally, what is next-gen? In Xbox chief Phil Spencer's latest blog for Xbox Wire, we get a smattering of tech specs for the new Series X, reaffirmation of a frictionless future for gaming thanks to solid-state storage and a reminder that as powerful as raw power is, technological innovation is just as important.
However, despite that focus on new ideas, there is still room for Microsoft to clarify and indeed emphasise the extent of the processing power crammed into the Xbox Series X GPU. In a GameSpot story at the tail end of 2019, Spencer invited us to 'do the math' based on the notion that the new console had twice the graphics power of Xbox One X and over 8x that of Xbox One. The implication was that the console packs a 12 teraflop GPU - but muddying the waters somewhat is the fact that innovations in GPU architecture meant that Microsoft wouldn't need 12TF to deliver 2x Xbox One X performance - our tests showed that a ballpark 9-10TF could conceivably get the job done.
The new blog clarifies the situation and it's only good news. With 12TF unambiguously confirmed, Microsoft may well have twice the basic level of GPU compute on tap, but actual gaming performance should exceed that handily. However, the firm goes further in explicitly stating that AMD's latest RDNA 2 architecture is at the heart of Series X, meaning that there may well be some further optimisations in the upcoming AMD Navi design implemented in the console that we are not yet aware of, simply because PC parts based on the latest architecture are not yet available for us to experiment with.
Read the entire DF Article on 12TF RDNA2 Xbox Series X here https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-xbox-series-x-power-play-analysis
Riddlewire
Regular
And it still won't be able to play Gunvalkyrie.
(Prove me wrong, Microsoft.)
(Prove me wrong, Microsoft.)
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