Please try to share from the DF video directly and not share a tweet of what someone else shared from the video.
Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]
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Please try to share from the DF video directly and not share a tweet of what someone else shared from the video.
This video I suppose but 42 minutes long here it is the exact moment he told it.
EDIY:
38:50 and 39:45.
Mod Edit: EuroGamer video summary @ https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...the-changing-face-of-next-gen-at-3-45pm-today
I believe he stated the problem with the Xbox is that it is no longer an SDK specific to a console, but a gdk good for Xbox One, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X and PC development. More to get a handle on apparently.
Brad Sams over at Thurott.com posted this back on July 6. Wonder how the GDK has changed since then?
https://www.thurrott.com/games/237476/the-latest-on-xbox-game-core
Tommy McClain
Brad Sams @ Thurott.com said:The Latest on Xbox Game Core
With the next generation of the Xbox console, Microsoft is working on a new development environment called Game Core. The environment is now available to developers building titles for the series X and series S (Lockhart) but it’s not quite finished yet and won’t be finished before the release of the upcoming consoles.
Late last month, information pertaining to Lockhart showed up in the June release of the Game Development Kit, or GDK, and that same documentation has more information about Game Core’s current status.
The purpose of Game Core is two-fold, to make it easier to develop games for the two SKUs of series X/S and it is designed to make game development closer to that of building a traditional Windows 10 application.
Before diving into some of the technical aspects documented in the GDK June release, Microsoft is now telling developers that with this release, they can use the tool to start publishing games for release for the upcoming consoles. Meaning, the first games you play will likely be built with this release and also acknowledges that the company is becoming comfortable with the state of their development tools for launch titles.
This doesn’t mean that there will not be more updates arriving to the GDK before release, but it does mean that the June 2020 GDK will be the baseline for developing next-generation titles.
But back to Game Core, the GDK for June talks quite a bit about the development framework for next-gen titles and its current state. In fact, the document references it about two dozen times but most of it is quite technical. Meaning, it goes to the level of discussing how Game Core memory architecture has the kernel memory usage isolated from title memory usage – it’s technical and not consumer-grade material.
The big takeaway from Game Core, based on these documents, is that this is the mechanism that makes it easier to target “profiles” for the two different consoles. Specifically, the version of PIX that ships with the GDK supports the profiling of Game Core titles. And what are those profiles? The profiles are Anaconda and Lockhart – developers using the GDK can select the targeted device and then optimize their code for that specific platform.
In the latest release of the GDK, “profile guided optimization is available in Preview form in the June 2020 GDK”; the language is clear as day with Lockhart and Anaconda profiles being detailed for developers.
Considering Game Core is all new, not everything will be ready for the launch of the consoles. While developers can now use the June 2020 release for games that will head to retail, features like “Multi-process games in Game Core” will not arrive until after launch. There is a work-around for this in the current release, so fret not that this means games can’t be multi-threaded.
The takeaway here is that Microsoft’s Game Core is moving full-steam ahead and will be ready for launch later this year. But it’s not complete and there are quite a few bugs/optimization that need to be worked out before all the functionality meets the targeted spec sheet when the project was first started.
https://www.thurrott.com/games/237476/the-latest-on-xbox-game-core
Tommy McClain
Nothing with the GDK fundamentally changed from July.
What changed was devs used to use an entirely different set of tools to dev for XboxOne set of consoles. Now they have an entirely new to them platform to use for developing from top to bottom, with Xbox One, One S, One X, Series S, and Series X.
I'm not entirely certain, but I think GDK can even be used for PC development too.
So this is the typical growing pains of developers having to switch over to new toolsets. However, once they change, they can use it for everything.
Also seems like some devs are fine with it from what Richard said. So either they're quicker on the uptake or they're not the grumpy old developers who love to bitch about everything.
What changed was devs used to use an entirely different set of tools to dev for XboxOne set of consoles. Now they have an entirely new to them platform to use for developing from top to bottom, with Xbox One, One S, One X, Series S, and Series X.
I'm not entirely certain, but I think GDK can even be used for PC development too.
So this is the typical growing pains of developers having to switch over to new toolsets. However, once they change, they can use it for everything.
Also seems like some devs are fine with it from what Richard said. So either they're quicker on the uptake or they're not the grumpy old developers who love to bitch about everything.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
That would certainly be amusing if at some point in the future, PS5 games in the cloud were running on...Anaconda SOCs through Azure. Pure speculation starts around 31:10 when Sony's partnership with MS is brought up. That the hardware is so similar that "what if..."
Regards,
SB
But wouldn't that require the Anaconda SOC to have Tempest and the other stuff from the PS5 SOC? I don't think that's realistic.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Totally not realistic. But if (HUGE IF) they are putting their games on PC. And if (ANOTHER HUGE IF) they use MS's GDK to do so...
Will anyone noticed if their PS5 game that is streamed through PSNow isn't exactly the same as the PS5 version?
Regards,
SB
With PS5 custom I/O (and removal of bottlenecks) that's impossible right now with the current tech available on PC (PC, Xbox series).Totally not realistic. But if (HUGE IF) they are putting their games on PC. And if (ANOTHER HUGE IF) they use MS's GDK to do so...
Will anyone noticed if their PS5 game that is streamed through PSNow isn't exactly the same as the PS5 version?
Regards,
SB
MS and Nvidia have worked together to form a solution that's superior in terms of IO.
Calling it "superior" before anyone has seen it seems a bit premature to me. I guess you could argue that a 2080 series is going to be capable of greater decompression in the future than the PS5 now, but even that is somewhat speculative.
Nice analysis. I'm still bothered by the dithering/aliasing in the fur.
I wouldn't mind playing a game at 1080p if we get perfect AA and this level of quality (or a bit better).
Rurouni
Veteran
I'm not sure why you keep calling it superior but whatever. The problem is that when is the actual real implementation of it? It will be a waste on PC anyway since for the foreseeable future they will still need to design PC games that can be run smoothly from HDD.
If we are talking about running ported PS games to be run from cloud, is it actually cost effective using PC hardware vs just using PS5 hardware? Probably not within the console lifetime.
Well, run any 4k game in a 1080p monitor and you just got yourself 4x SSAA on top of whatever AA the game already had for each original pixel. Probably going to clean most of the artifacts up enough for them to be imperceptible.
cheapchips
Veteran
All PS5 and Xbox Series X games that support 120fps
Plus Digital Foundry's recommended 120Hz TVs and monitors.
Microsoft recently confirmed that Halo Infinite, the flagship game of the Xbox Series X, would support 120fps gameplay in its multiplayer mode. That got us thinking - which other games have been confirmed to support the 120Hz refresh rates of modern 4K TVs?
We did some research and this article is the result: a comprehensive list of all PS5 and Xbox Series X games that are set to exceed the traditional 60fps limit of consoles. As well as the game list, we've included what you need to know about the tech underpinning 4K 120Hz televisions - HDMI 2.1 - and the best 4K TVs to choose for next-gen gaming.
While TVs are the focus here, as this is how most people will play on Xbox Series X or PS5, we've also covered the other option: high refresh rate monitors. These have been available for PC for a few years now, so we've included our recommendations for the best gaming monitors that support 120Hz or higher refresh rates at a variety of resolutions. These start with currently available 1080p and 1440p models and end with the first monitor confirmed to ship with HDMI 2.1 support, allowing 120fps gaming at a full 4K resolution - perfect for next-gen.
As well as games and recommended displays, we've included a brief guide to 120fps gaming. Scroll on, or jump directly to the topic you're interested in below:
Table of contents
For full list view @ https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...firmed-120fps-games-for-ps5-and-xbox-series-x
Plus Digital Foundry's recommended 120Hz TVs and monitors.
Microsoft recently confirmed that Halo Infinite, the flagship game of the Xbox Series X, would support 120fps gameplay in its multiplayer mode. That got us thinking - which other games have been confirmed to support the 120Hz refresh rates of modern 4K TVs?
We did some research and this article is the result: a comprehensive list of all PS5 and Xbox Series X games that are set to exceed the traditional 60fps limit of consoles. As well as the game list, we've included what you need to know about the tech underpinning 4K 120Hz televisions - HDMI 2.1 - and the best 4K TVs to choose for next-gen gaming.
While TVs are the focus here, as this is how most people will play on Xbox Series X or PS5, we've also covered the other option: high refresh rate monitors. These have been available for PC for a few years now, so we've included our recommendations for the best gaming monitors that support 120Hz or higher refresh rates at a variety of resolutions. These start with currently available 1080p and 1440p models and end with the first monitor confirmed to ship with HDMI 2.1 support, allowing 120fps gaming at a full 4K resolution - perfect for next-gen.
As well as games and recommended displays, we've included a brief guide to 120fps gaming. Scroll on, or jump directly to the topic you're interested in below:
Table of contents
- Which PS5 and Xbox Series X games support 120fps?
- Digital Foundry's TV and monitor recommendations for 120fps
- The Digital Foundry guide to 120fps next-gen gaming
For full list view @ https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...firmed-120fps-games-for-ps5-and-xbox-series-x
There's no reason games can't support it from day 1 to speed up load times which can obviously scale from the slowest HDD to the fastest NVMe.
In terms of high speed streaming changing a games design in ways that can't scale down to slower drives, I can't see many games doing that outside of a hand full of PS5 exclusives for at least the next few years because all multiplatform and xbox exclusives will need to support slower PC configs too. It might be the case that some games would implement Oblivion style load screens where systems with faster IO would not.
the wolf's fur impressed me the most. Are they using nVidia Hairworks?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
You say impossible before any games are out. But we still don't know the impact of everything on each console.
If PS5 doesn't have something similar to SFS, then it's entirely possible that XBSX could stream in textures faster than PS5 just due to only having to stream in a fraction of the texture.
This leaves loading times as the main differentiator that PS5 should always be ahead in. But again. When streamed through PSNow, will someone notice if something loads in 0.5 seconds versus 1 second? 1 second instead of 2 seconds?
While different their audio capabilities are pretty similar. Even if Sony can do 1000 audio sources simultaneously while XBSX is in the 300-400 audio source range, how many developers will use 1000 audio sources and will it be noticeably different from 300-400 sources? Again...when streamed through PSNow, where people are already expecting a lesser experience than they would have on a console.
It's incredibly unlikely that Sony would do this, but it's certainly not impossible at streaming quality.
Regards,
SB
this is one of my favourite DF interviews, just because they talk face to face to a developer, and how they suffered to get there and stuff.
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