Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

[cwjs]

I have to agree. While dynamic time of day is nice and all, it doesn't really have a function in games that warrants its cost, in my opinion. Especially when some games with supposedly 'dynamic time of day' still have a very much artist-driven time of day.

I'm playing through Ghost of Tsushima right now, which has a dynamic time of day system which at times completely changes in front of your very eyes to suit whichever event is happening. So while it may still be more expensive than a Spiderman with simple, set times of day, it is very much still driven in a way to make the game look as good as it can in each event.

afaik, got uses the horizon zero dawn style approach: dynamic time of day with a real dynamic light for the sun, but interpolating between several "sweet spot" times of day where the lighting looks best (and where they can tweak post processing, effects settings, etc, to be seen in a flattering light) rather than letting it inch across the sky at a fixed speed.

This has a lot of benefits for artists, since everything can be tweaked and polished to look awesome -- but it still has some (most likely all or most) of the cost of a dynamic time of day. Maybe some info like cubemaps are pre-baked for each set tod, but it's probably not got full on baked lighting for each time period.

(vs spiderman, which iirc has no changes in tod without reloading the environment, and uses fixed/baked light for each version of the city.)

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm playing through Ghost of Tsushima right now, which has a dynamic time of day system which at times completely changes in front of your very eyes to suit whichever event is happening.

AC Valhalla is the same. When you are outside of missions, dynamic ToD happens as you would expect but a whole bunch of missions advance ToD (and weather) to a specific point, then freeze it there for the duration of the mission.

 

[iroboto]

I have to agree. While dynamic time of day is nice and all, it doesn't really have a function in games that warrants its cost, in my opinion. Especially when some games with supposedly 'dynamic time of day' still have a very much artist-driven time of day.

I'm playing through Ghost of Tsushima right now, which has a dynamic time of day system which at times completely changes in front of your very eyes to suit whichever event is happening. So while it may still be more expensive than a Spiderman with simple, set times of day, it is very much still driven in a way to make the game look as good as it can in each event.

Either that, or i'm imagining things.

The Dynamic TOD is a nice feature to personalize everyone's experience so it isn't the same exactly. Which I guess in my mind subtly is a nice feature to have. No playthrough is ever the same because night time tactics and day time tactics differ etc. So i guess the outlook there is sort of like Diablo, with its procedurally generated dungeons, you'd get very tired if its teh same dungeon/map/environment. The TOD variation may lift some mental exhaustion of repetition from the game if the intention is to play it for 200hrs or so of content that ubisoft made, or the MP of Ghosts of Tsuyshima which I read great things about.

 

[BRiT]

DF Article about Sackboy @ https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-sackboy-a-big-adventure-tech-analysis

Sackboy: A Big Adventure - how Sony tackles the generational divide
See how a PS5 launch game transitions across to PS4 and Pro.

From my perspective, no console launch is truly complete without an excellent platform game and thankfully, Sony and developer Sumo Digital deliver exactly that for PlayStation 5 with Sackboy: A Big Adventure. It's a beautiful game, and a fascinating example of how one developer aims to straddle the generational divide - while Sackboy champions the power of PlayStation 5, there's also support for PS4 and PS4 Pro too. The question is, has Sumo Digital delivered the kind of magic we expect from a platform exclusive next-gen launch title but at the same time still deliver a good experience for owners of existing PlayStation hardware?

First of all, it's worth stressing that Sackboy: A Big Adventure may well be tapping into the characters and aesthetic of the Little Big Planet titles, but game concept itself is something quite different: think of it as 3D platforming experience more along the lines of Super Mario 3D World - fun, quirky, exciting and attractive. The key point of differentiation compared to the LBP titles is that there's no creation mode. What you get instead is superb platforming, plain and simple, delivered with visuals that really put the underlying Unreal Engine 4 through its paces.

...

 

[PSman1700]

SMM RT looks far more impressive than WDL implementation

Not when compared to the PC version of WDL. Quite the opposite when talking the RT implementation, DF even noted that.

 

[Shortbread]

Not when compared to the PC version of WDL. Quite the opposite when talking the RT implementation, DF even noted that.

*yawn* I was talking about the RT implementation between both games strictly within the console space.

As an FYI, I've already made my opinions quite clear on the RT implementations comparisons between WDL and SM:MM on console and PC... but good try on your part though.

 

[RobertR1]

Judging by how poor the RT performance is on rdna2 and these consoles get a weaker version of that already, RT will be a checkbox until mid gen refresh at best but really likely need to wait for next gen for it to match current gen Ampere capabilities.

hopefully DF do it right and start using a calibrated OLED as the source with a hdmi 2.1 chain for testing consoles and PC going forward, if they don’t already.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Judging by how poor the RT performance is on rdna2 and these consoles get a weaker version of that already, RT will be a checkbox until mid gen refresh at best but really likely need to wait for next gen for it to match current gen Ampere capabilities.

So we'll just ignore Spider-Man Miles Morales then? And what we've seen or Ratchet & Clank? And Watch Dogs Legion?

 

[Karamazov]

he justs means RT will be far from Ampere performance on these consoles, which is true, and obvious, even if it looks great already.
But for now RT is applied only on higher res last gen games. When real next gen graphics come, there may be not enough room to add proper RT as seen in MM for reflections, or even Cod for shadows. We'll see.

 

[see colon]

So we'll just ignore Spider-Man Miles Morales then? And what we've seen or Ratchet & Clank? And Watch Dogs Legion?

I think the big worry is that games that are available on PC and console have the console releases running lower settings for RT. Sometimes lower than the lowest PC settings. That doesn't install a lot of faith for the future. The console exclusive games have decent RT implementations, but there are clear compromises already.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I think the big worry is that games that are available on PC and console have the console releases running lower settings for RT. Sometimes lower than the lowest PC settings. That doesn't install a lot of faith for the future. The console exclusive games have decent RT implementations, but there are clear compromises already.

Who is worried by this and isn't this to be expected? Just over a year ago nobody was expecting consoles to support any level of RT and yet we're seeing results like Miles Morales and Watch Dogs Legion.

Why is console RT somehow irrelevant and unimpressive because PC graphics cards are doing better?

 

[Rootax]

When you read some devs, DXR on pc is meh because they can't optimise like they want.

Maybe that's where consoles can gain some perfs back vs PC. Anyway, for 399-499 machines, I'm impressed they even got RT. Now it will be time to utilize it smartly. Not just for show. It will take time.

 

[Insight]

When you read some devs, DXR on pc is meh because they can't optimise like they want.

Maybe that's where consoles can gain some perfs back vs PC. Anyway, for 399-499 machines, I'm impressed they even got RT. Now it will be time to utilize it smartly. Not just for show. It will take time.

Exactly, devlopers will do wonders with RT on consoles even if it's much weaker

https://twitter.com/x/status/1330126681122746371

https://twitter.com/x/status/1330166362413690882

https://twitter.com/x/status/1330174073092132873

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I think the big worry is that games that are available on PC and console have the console releases running lower settings for RT. Sometimes lower than the lowest PC settings. That doesn't install a lot of faith for the future. The console exclusive games have decent RT implementations, but there are clear compromises already.

I never understand comments like this. PC has always outperform consoles. That's what happens when you have yearly hardware updates and a price point where the GPU alone can cost several 100 dollars more than a whole console.

I'm sure that when the true next gen games start appearing we'll see the consoles make nice use of RT. Sure, PC will so better but that is a bit of a moot point.

 

[Arwin]

Not to mention at times downright insane power budgets.

 

[Jay]

When peoole say RT are you lot just talking reflections, as RT can be used for many things like shadows.
Having RT hardware is easily going to be a net positive, I would say it's already proving to be and that on launch titles.

 

[Rootax]

Honestly we've seen tech demos when T&L was "new" with very good looking lighting/shadows : o

 

[PSman1700]

I think the big worry is that games that are available on PC and console have the console releases running lower settings for RT. Sometimes lower than the lowest PC settings. That doesn't install a lot of faith for the future. The console exclusive games have decent RT implementations, but there are clear compromises already.

Atleast its there, just like 8k is on them. We can always hope future RT implementations, games build around the hardware from the ground up, that it wont be like in spiderman atleast.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Anyway, for 399-499 machines, I'm impressed they even got RT.

I see what you did there! No mention of the XBSS.

Anyway! My new PC cost me $2242 and it still doesn't do RT because I will have my 1080Ti in it. That's really sad!

A new Palit 3070 OC on BF special will cost me $852. I am still deciding whether I should buy one.

 

[AlNom]

I see what you did there! No mention of the XBSS.

WDL has RT on XSS (even if it's kinda crappy looking).