Did ATI hold back on R520 to make room for R580?

But revenge and money is twice as nice. It is the whole kick them while their down strategy. Nvidia can release a higher clocked part to get the performance crown. Thus allowing them to say they have the best card, which in turn transfers into better sales on their lower end parts.
 
mrcorbo said:
On another note. If R580 is Feb, a refresh for that is in the works (Jun/Jul?) and DX10 parts arrive by the end of the year that's 4(!) product launches for ATI in a single calendar year. And that doesn't even count the XBOX360 and Revolution GPUs. That's just crazy.
Click to expand...
Isnt R580 the refresh of R520? (It doesnt have a refresh of its own)
 
Rather than drop R520 down a notch, isn't it more likely ATI will phase it out in favor of R580 and release a new, two quad GPU to fill in the gap b/w the currently single quad RVs and quadruple quad Rs? We've already seen it with X700 and 6600, a separate, mainstream/"performance" GPU.

It's possible they'll go with a 4-5 GPU lineup (RV515, RV530, dual-quad, R520, R580), but I see RV515 ditched in favor of RV530 just as R520 will make way for R580. Then we'll see something in between at the $250-450 level, a dual-quad version of RV530/R580.

Maybe that's too neat, but it does seem a lot simpler in terms of fab space/usage.

As for R580 refreshes, I thought that was the end of the line WRT DX9.

I'm done talking out of my butt, now.
 
Jawed said:
Why is the MSRP of X1600XT $200 lower than the MSRP for X1800XL. You'd have thunk that there'd be X1800Pro/SE SKUs to fill that gap, wouldn't ya? Or that the X1800s are wildly over-priced?


The high-end counts for about 10% of all sales volume (in the desktop product set).

Jawed
Click to expand...


I think that price gap between $250 and $450 (or something like this) will be filled in January or Feburary. ATi will bring the price of the X1800XL down to $299 and the X1800XT to $399(256mb), $449(512mb) and will introduce the X1900XT(R580) ,and possible the XL, for $599 and $549 repectively.

These are of course my predictions, but when Nvidia counters the X1800XT(and they will), ATi has the R580 "In house and working" for just that occasion.


Predicted by me Oct. 6th. Let's see if I'm right. :)

http://66.224.5.66/board/showpost.php?p=1333950620&postcount=33
 
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Pete said:
As for R580 refreshes, I thought that was the end of the line WRT DX9.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that ATi had R590 on their roadmaps. This core was listed as "optional" and is supposedly R580 on a 80nm process. Doesn't 80nm also have low-k? If it does than R590 could very well be the refresh of R580 using higher clockspeeds, but cheaper to produce.

Personally I expect R520 to continue besides R580 in a lower pricerange, until RV560 appears first with RV540 and RV505 coming a bit later (probably Q2/Q3'06).
 
If I take as granted that the R580 will have similar or slightly higher clockspeeds than R520, then I don't see the first being a clear winner over what the competition might have to offer against it.

Furthermore I'm wondering whether ATI will in fact release a X1800XT PE with even higher frequencies, otherwise they might end up losing any so far advantage over the competition in terms of performance.
 
CJ said:
...Personally I expect R520 to continue besides R580 in a lower pricerange, until RV560 appears first with RV540 and RV505 coming a bit later (probably Q2/Q3'06)...
Click to expand...
Are you able to flesh out those codenames (RV560, RV540, RV505) at all in terms of process and possible configuration?

- RV540: 80nm die shrink (cost reduction) of RV530?
- RV505: 80nm die shrink (cost reduction) of RV515?
- RV560: 80nm die shrink (cost reduction) of R520 -- the X800XL of R5xx? Or perhaps a beefed-up RV530, i.e. maybe 8-1-3-2?

Are my musings even close? :LOL:

EDIT: Clarity
 
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CJ said:
Keep in mind that ATi had R590 on their roadmaps. This core was listed as "optional" and is supposedly R580 on a 80nm process. Doesn't 80nm also have low-k? If it does than R590 could very well be the refresh of R580 using higher clockspeeds, but cheaper to produce.

Personally I expect R520 to continue besides R580 in a lower pricerange, until RV560 appears first with RV540 and RV505 coming a bit later (probably Q2/Q3'06).
Click to expand...

I don't get it. Is it such a good idea to bring this many different products to market in so short of a time. Especially with all of them becoming obsolete with DX10? How are they going to get rid of all that inventory.
 
well Nvidia has shown you dont need highest end performance leadership to dominate in sales.

I dont think the R580 will be out in anything less then 3 or 4 months. If ATI wants to drink up sales they can start by attacking Nvidia in the mid and mid-upper ranges.

Not sure if this hasnt been posted in this thread yet, but i'd seriously kill any hopes of ATI launching this as a responce to the 512GTX.

Vendors tell us R580 is some ways away, so don't expect anything between now and CeBit.
Click to expand...
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2574
 
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mrcorbo said:
I don't get it. Is it such a good idea to bring this many different products to market in so short of a time. Especially with all of them becoming obsolete with DX10? How are they going to get rid of all that inventory.
Click to expand...

They don't become obselete just because DX10 is released. They won't become obselete until games using DX10 as the base featureset are common. Which won't be for years.
 
wireframe said:
It's not that simple though, is it? Can a company in such difficulties afford to completely write off a product? Nvidia had some problems with NV3x, but they stuck to their guns, riding it out instead of completely panicking. However, I think the main reason the R520 exists now is for the X1800XL and not the XT. But they need something to show.

On the bigger scale, I don't see what the problem is. I think it's looking good for ATI, not excellent, but good. The XT is performance king (or looks like it) and the new hardware may have some room for driver/software improvements. Under no circumstances do I think you could say the XT is inferior to the GTX. Therefore, there is no reason for ATI to skip on using the R520 for the XT, earning some revenue on what has become a very expensive project while they wait to release the R580.

PS. I think the announcement of R580 being "ready and working" is not meant to be taken as a "soon to be launched," but as a "can be launched soon". In the 3D industry you ive and die by the products in your pipeline. Nvidia effectively killed off everyone in the early market through execution, execution, execution. Companies like 3dfx were powerless against it. It didn't matter how current products stacked up, Nvidia always threatened to release a newer, more powerful model if it didn't have the performance crown. Analysts want to see that companies are prepared for this kind of attack.
Click to expand...


I agree with you one hundred percent. The point I am making is that ATI under no circumstances would hold back technology on a part about to be released especially when they are late to begin with. Publicly traded companies do not have this luxury unless they are king of their market. Stockholders will come after them with a vengeance.
 
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