Did ATI hold back on R520 to make room for R580?

[mrcorbo]

I had been doing some thinking about this generation of video cards and Nvidia's execution of the GF6 and 7 series. The fact that they had SM3.0 capable parts for both these generations has allowed them to fill out their product lineup with new SKUs based on NV4x chips without sacrificing features.

ATI OTOH has only just now introduced SM3.0 capability with the R5XX generation, so needed to come out with a whole new family of chips to cater to each market segment. Come spring, however, ATI will be in the same position Nvidia was when it launched it's GF7 cards. Could they be planning on following a similar strategy when they launch R580?

Here's where it entered my mind that ATI may have had incentive to hold back the performance of the R520 parts so that they would be good enough to grab the performance crown, but not too good giving them room to fit 2 SKUs of R580-based products above the X1800XT.

This would explain why X1800 cards seem to overclock so readily. This chip may have reserves of performance that ATI actually chose not to tap.

Anyway, there are plenty of other reasons why ATI may have wanted to limit the clocks on the X1800 (improved yields, better thermal profile, etc.), but if come Spring ATI introduce 2 or more R580 based parts that just happen to slide in right above the X1800 cards in performance.....

 

[Moloch]

Well how much more power does it draw overclocked?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Did ATI hold back on R520 to make room for R580?

Yes.

 

[jvd]

Ati most likely held back for 2 reasons

1) yields

2) a xt pe part if nvidia releases something to beat the x1800xt

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

well that makes the Claim 'nvidia holding back on the GTX for a "ultra" post-x1x series' launch likely.... what's next - both compaines shipping there "LE SE" or "Plain" versions in sheeps clothing? heheheh

I guess it's better than the "XTPlatinum Edition" or "Ultra Extreme" rubbish the launches before but not by much.

More food for some ironic Inq posts. man they get it easy when it comes too these two companies.

 

[jvd]

well that makes the Claim 'nvidia holding back on the GTX for a "ultra" post-x1x series' launch likely.... what's next - both compaines shipping there "LE SE" or "Plain" versions in sheeps clothing? heheheh

I guess it's better than the "XTPlatinum Edition" or "Ultra Extreme" rubbish the launches before but not by much.

More food for some ironic Inq posts. man they get it easy when it comes too these two companies.

I don't see the problem. I allways figured we'd see a 7800ultra . Its just smart busniess . If u launch your best ahead of the competition and go balls out when they launch if they can launch a better product your screwed.

 

[RobertR1]

I don't see the problem. I allways figured we'd see a 7800ultra . Its just smart busniess . If u launch your best ahead of the competition and go balls out when they launch if they can launch a better product your screwed.

I'm glad someone is actually mentioning the business aspect of this. I don't think most enthusiasts look past the pretty comparison graphs to realize that at the end of the day, it's all about making money and pressing hard on any advantage presented to you.

Nvidia had 4+ months to futher tweak the core on the G70 and then Ati handed them a gift by releasing all the info on their x1800x a month before it would ever see consumer hands. Now that's what I call a Christmas present! (to nvidia).

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

I just find it amusing that last launch cycle both companies were going all out to one up each other. This launch cycle they are going all out to increment each other...

Yeh I understand it's all about $. It's the marketing campaigns evolution and launch strats involved. What your saying makes sense jvd and applies this time to this particular set of circumstances but makes no sense to the launch of the 6800U and the 850xt and the sudsequent parts the UE and the XTPE respectively. So was it smart business then? They are quite different.

This particular sub industry is pretty cut throat in terms of PR even when compared to a cut throat industry like IT. These two companies fight tooth and nail. Like I said I find it amusing the antics.

 

[Jawed]

I believe ATI has over-inflated R520's prices, because they can. (I wouldn't be surprised if this is for the benefit of the AIBs, for them to extract maximum revenue, in compensation for the last 6 months' wait.)

Originally, back in June, R520 would have been dandy (though without BF2 and FEAR it might not have won many benchmarks) and architecturally I think ATI was taking a keep it simple stupid approach to their first R5xx part, with the 16-1-1-1 architecture - instead of going balls to the wall with 16-1-3-1 as in R580.

I also think that the price chasm twixt X1600XT and X1800XL - $200 - indicates that X1800XL/XT are going to drop very heavily in price.

And to me the best reason why is R580. With X1800XL at $250 and X1800XT at $300/350 (256/512MB) there's room for $450/$500/$550 X1900XL/XT-256/XT-512 parts. It's a pisser that it'll be after Christmas before R580 hits the streets.

Jawed

 

[Kombatant]

Did ATI hold back on R520 to make room for R580?

No need to imo.

 

[kemosabe]

More rumblings from AT about R580 not being close to release.

 

[_xxx_]

More rumblings from AT about R580 not being close to release.

OK, so wtf is RD580?

We need a utility where we can enter the codename and it tells us what it is or some such... too many f***ing codenames for everything and anything

 

[Lux_]

Considering the delays I think they might have held back because of yelds - there are not so many lines producing their chips and they *have to* start shipping these things this year . It's not like they have half a year to collect working chips and work out the optimal configuration.

 

[Lux_]

OK, so wtf is RD580?

A motherboard

 

[PatrickL]

Next ATI chipset

 

[_xxx_]

Thx!

 

[Hellbinder]

Did they hold back for R580??

They have not even gotten these R520XT's out the door yet (maybe 10 shipped as of today?) And you guys think they intentionally crippled them to make room for a product that wont be shipped for another 3-4 months at the earliest?

Ati is screwing up a lot this year but even i cant see their management being that freaking moronic.

 

[Skinner]

I cann't see any logic to do this.
They need a SM3 card badly for a long time, the longer it takes, the more damaged they are.

They "hold them back" because they weren't cabable of releasing it on the right speeds, 5 months ago.....
And yet it appears to be they fail again (after the R8500 and the R9700Pro and the X800XT PE) to actually deliver any XI800XT in retail beside a handfull of lucky Americans on time

 

[caboosemoose]

I don't think ATI held back on the XT and I don't think there'll be a PE version of R520. I also happen to know that quite close to the launch (within a few weeks) certain relatively senior bods at ATI were expcting the card to launch at 650MHz, and I am assuming that yields were just too horrible at that clock.

 

[rwolf]

I suspect we will see R580 with the release of GDDR4 in the second quarter next year.