Devil May Cry 4 @ TGS

[Dot50Cal]

That seems logical Glad to have a resolution to this! But I'd like to hear a more technical explanation of why the PS3 would be blending the frames like this and the 360 isn't. To anyone who has played DMC games in the past, is the blurring a traditional thing?

The mipmap differences are very apparent in this shot, the 360 one is extremely oversharpened:

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/gaf/dmc4/3605.jpg
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/gaf/dmc4/PS35.jpg

 

[Nesh]

As far as I remember DMC1 had some blending that was noticeable in some areas. Usually in dark areas or in areas where the spider boss was present. It sometimes looked like some kind of bloom.

 

[valioso]

while all this comparisson is very very interesting, I am going to change subjects for a second, to say that the demo was very fun and it has cemented my day 1 thoughts about the game, I hadn't played a DMC game since the 1st one, and I love the demo, it was fun, the controls were easy to adjust to and pull of cool combos in the air. And the graphics at least for me were smooth, no stuttering or anything.

 

[Nesh]

 

[Dot50Cal]

I dont think IGN allows hotlinking, might be best to rehost those.

 

[Nesh]

I dont think IGN allows hotlinking, might be best to rehost those.

Can I atleast use these links?

http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/015/015620/img_1288906.html
http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/015/015620/img_1288911.html

http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/015/015620/imgs_1.html

 

[Dot50Cal]

Yep, I can access them ok.

 

[chris100]

That seems logical Glad to have a resolution to this! But I'd like to hear a more technical explanation of why the PS3 would be blending the frames like this and the 360 isn't. To anyone who has played DMC games in the past, is the blurring a traditional thing?

IMO,the motion blur effect in PS3 DMC4 is very cheap somehow.

It could be a simple version of motion blur.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20070131/3dlp.htm

Capcom uses "2.5D Motion Blur" to make a 30fps game(Lost Planet) looks like 60fps one.

A simple version of Motion Blur used in PS3 DMC 4?

 

[Dot50Cal]

I think they went with a more stylistic approach for DMC4. One that was more traditional to the series (I do seem to recall door transitions being very similar to the way its done in DMC4 on the old PS2 versions). This one seems to be more camera based, rather than character model based like LP was.

 

[Quaz51]

auto-quote

no, it isn't Motion Blur, just persistence frame, blend frame with frame -1, and the both version are 60fps
i don't know why this effect on PS3 version, i prefer without

and another...

for AA, one exemple of edge with MSAA 2x on PS3 version and no AA on X360 version (I take this photo on the first second of the demo, the right lamp of the door at beginning of demo, the photo is rotated)
of course it's not persistence effect, no movement on this screenshot, it's just classic MSAA

I see that just on this edge, majority of all edge are MSAA 2x on both version

 

[Quaz51]

i think that i know why persistence effect... for temporal AA?
maybe odd and even frame have an half pixel shift rendering (and no AA) and when blend frame with frame -1 that make exactly the same effect than a MSAA 2x ... for static context only, in movement they are just persistence effect that blur the image

 

[Dot50Cal]

Someone was mentioning that the PS3 cutscenes aren't capped at 30 FPS, and they are right. The framerate sometimes goes to 30, but it is usually around 45-60 for PS3. 360 is locked at 30. Large GIF showing this:

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/gaf/dmc4/dmc4small.gif

 

[deepbrown]

Someone was mentioning that the PS3 cutscenes aren't capped at 30 FPS, and they are right. The framerate sometimes goes to 30, but it is usually around 45-60 for PS3. 360 is locked at 30. Large GIF showing this:

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/gaf/dmc4/dmc4small.gif

Odd. DOn't know which one I'd prefer. The more consistent one? Maybe it's just for the demo.

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

:I

I'm so confused. Maybe, Phil's right and I've just got my perception of things messed up or in reverse, but if that is the case then I'd like to know what Capcom did to sharpen the 360 version, or why for that matter. Is it just the different nature of the two hardware showing through?

That seems logical Glad to have a resolution to this! But I'd like to hear a more technical explanation of why the PS3 would be blending the frames like this and the 360 isn't. To anyone who has played DMC games in the past, is the blurring a traditional thing?

The mipmap differences are very apparent in this shot, the 360 one is extremely oversharpened:

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/gaf/dmc4/3605.jpg
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/gaf/dmc4/PS35.jpg

But see that DEFINITELY looks like motion blur, you can spot the sampling around Nero's DB arm, so that's not what's causing the blur... and no, it's not tradition, well aside from inherent PS2 issues and resolution...

Also, can RSX even DO temporal AA, I thought that what an ATi only thing? In shaders? And you wouldn't be able to see it in a screen shot anyway, right?

 

[idsn6]

Also, can RSX even DO temporal AA, I thought that what an ATi only thing? In shaders? And you wouldn't be able to see it in a screen shot anyway, right?

This kind of temporal AA/blur is a very, very old technique, long before shaders. It's not an extra, it's a compromise: apparently they didn't have the resources to do 2xMSAA in a single 60Hz frame on the PS3, so they just render it raw and jitter the next frame for an amortized approximation.

The thing is, this trick only works for static scenes with a static camera, since it's stretching out the operation over several frames. Otherwise you tend to get a blurred mess.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'll repeat what I repeated in the other thread (!)

i think that i know why persistence effect... for temporal AA?
maybe odd and even frame have an half pixel shift rendering (and no AA) and when blend frame with frame -1 that make exactly the same effect than a MSAA 2x ... for static context only, in movement they are just persistence effect that blur the image

As I mentioned in this post regards dot50cal's screengrabs, it's clear there's a large motion effect in operation in this image ...

Bottom left shows a 3 pixel offset (in NE/SW direction I think) which isn't uniform across the screen. This to me suggests blended frames as you said. If the persistence effect is for temporal AA, it has quite a nasty side effect!

 

[deepbrown]

I'll repeat what I repeated in the other thread (!)

As I mentioned in this post regards dot50cal's screengrabs, it's clear there's a large motion effect in operation in this image ...

Bottom left shows a 3 pixel offset (in NE/SW direction I think) which isn't uniform across the screen. This to me suggests blended frames as you said. If the persistence effect is for temporal AA, it has quite a nasty side effect!

Do we think it might be flicker filter? Some are saying there's annoying flickering on the 360 version (on neogaf). Don't you think it just looks like a bad side effect in a screenshot (actively blurs 2 frames together for one screenshot) but on the screen the textures can be seen in all their glory?

 

[Quaz51]

This kind of temporal AA/blur is a very, very old technique, long before shaders. It's not an extra, it's a compromise: apparently they didn't have the resources to do 2xMSAA in a single 60Hz frame on the PS3, so they just render it raw and jitter the next frame for an amortized approximation.

The thing is, this trick only works for static scenes with a static camera, since it's stretching out the operation over several frames. Otherwise you tend to get a blurred mess.

yes exactly
the temporal AA effect work only with relative static scene (in this case some graphic element can have better AA than X360 version like on my photo) but with move scene they are no AA effect, just persistence effect (persistence is not really a sexy effect)
but without this the PS3 version would have no AA

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Aaaaaaaah, I get it now. Thanks idsn, thanks quaz.

 

[deepbrown]

yes exactly
the temporal AA effect work only with relative static scene (in this case some graphic element can have better AA than X360 version like on my photo) but with move scene they are no AA effect, just persistence effect (persistence is not really a sexy effect)
but without this the PS3 version would have no AA

So Xbox 360 has normal AA, PS3 version has this effect to get the same AA. Making the PS3 the one that lacks slightly - or at least, depending on what look you prefer (oversharp, or slightly blurred). Is that right?