Deus Ex 3 (PC)

[Laa-Yosh]

I don't know, but one can assume studios not to be intentionally stupid. If they have done market research, looked at sales data, read customer feedback and so on, then we can expect them to make good decisions.

The general reaction seems to be positive. You also can not please everyone and there's always going to be a somewhat smaller group of people who always want something more hardcore. But the majority of the console gamers with money to spend on a SF game seems to be like me - in their thirties, not willing to obsess on anything that gets in the way of the storytelling and action.
I have enough Tetris to do in the day when I need to manage the daily tasks of like 6 or 8 people on top of my own work to do, I don't wish to come home and do the same in my spare time.

 

[warcrow]

Hi guys,

I hope you dont mind me reposting this here but its my Deus Ex: Human Revolution interview and it's now live!

Here are a few of the questions I asked: How deep do the RPG elements go? Do our choices have a global effect in the game? Can you complete the game without killing anyone? Will there be different ammo types? Will there be support for motion controls since there will be console releases? Will any characters from previous games make an appearance? And there is more...

I'm no games journalist but I did my best so I hope you enjoy! Let me know what you think.

Link: http://eat-games.blogspot.com/2010/06/e3-interview-deus-ex-human-revolution.htm

 

[Frank]

I don't know, but one can assume studios not to be intentionally stupid. If they have done market research, looked at sales data, read customer feedback and so on, then we can expect them to make good decisions.

The general reaction seems to be positive. You also can not please everyone and there's always going to be a somewhat smaller group of people who always want something more hardcore. But the majority of the console gamers with money to spend on a SF game seems to be like me - in their thirties, not willing to obsess on anything that gets in the way of the storytelling and action.
I have enough Tetris to do in the day when I need to manage the daily tasks of like 6 or 8 people on top of my own work to do, I don't wish to come home and do the same in my spare time.

Let's put this another way: to me, US games suck. I'm not your average Joe Sixpack, age 35 with money to spare, amalgamated with your sixteen year old ADHD teenager Bob. Which is the only combination of focus groups that allows reaping the big bucks against only a small risk.

I like Russian games, like Stalker and King's Bounty: experimental, cheap to produce by very enthusiastic developers.

I expect the new Blizzard games to suck as well.

 

[snarfbot]

But the majority of the console gamers with money to spend on a SF game seems to be like me - in their thirties, not willing to obsess on anything that gets in the way of the storytelling and action.

then a game like deus ex isn't for them, they shouldnt change the core tenets of the gameplay to suit an overly broad demographic should they?

 

[Neb]

I used to think it was becouse of devs but now I notice they are just adapting their games to appeal and suit dumbified "gamers" instead of doing what they really want to do. I guess soon games will be called movies and only interaction will be some pop-up menu at certain places to change outcome. And they will be short or else being forced to think for a minute or two about solving a problem would make those "gamers" cry, "bad game to many options!, "uhhh teh devs are stup1d makin me have to think I just wanna gun n' run with da craze M16 on da rollacosta 4 hour plot!"

Anwyay I hope DE3 is made as how the devs want it themselves.

 

[Frank]

Exactly. What is the point of producing a very streamlined Deus Ex, which only shines in new graphics? It was the gritty atmosphere, the sucking at first but growth to superhuman prowess, the faults and warts (although very fitting and very well executed) and especially the immersive and realistic feeling gameplay that made it into the classic it is. The coherence.

I mean, most of the things people did and liked, like the stealth, non-killing and alternative routes, like jumping from a skyscraper with max leg enhancements, were things that surprised Warren (as he told in interviews).

It has a much more coherent and open world and story than things like Oblivion.

And while strictly limited in story, it was what created the phrase "emergent gameplay".

Or, to put things in perspective: is there a game that offers better emergent gameplay than Deus Ex 1?


Edit: The second thing DX1 created was the mini-games. But, unlike what we see today, they don't require interaction to pull them off, they're strictly stat-based. As they should be.

If I want to play such a mini-game, I'll damn well load a full one up. Don't break my immersion by having me do totally stupid actions. Most hacking games are prime offenders.

If you want mini-games, come up with things like refined versions of the Fallout 3 lockpicking mini-game.

 

[swaaye]

Does Deus Ex 3 have to be based on the traditional stats-based "RPG gameplay" to be good?

That really wasn't my favorite part of the original game, nor is it what I like most about RPGs that I've played. I am more looking for the interactive story with interactive characters and a fascinating, interactive world to explore. Neatly quantifying my character's attributes doesn't enhance the experience much. Juggling dozens of things in my backpack doesn't either. That stuff is obviously gameplay translated to computers from pen & paper-imagined entertainment. I'm sure it translates nice and cleanly into code whereas less detached interaction with the game world is vastly more complex.

This might explain my complete non-interest in MMORPGs.

I've always wanted more evolution of interactive worlds and less abstraction into easy number lists. The STALKER games are pretty good but they have plenty of issues of course. AI is of course the primary roadblock to really great interaction and that's never going to change I'm sure.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I used to think it was becouse of devs but now I notice they are just adapting their games to appeal and suit dumbified "gamers" instead of doing what they really want to do. I guess soon games will be called movies and only interaction will be some pop-up menu at certain places to change outcome. And they will be short or else being forced to think for a minute or two about solving a problem would make those "gamers" cry, "bad game to many options!, "uhhh teh devs are stup1d makin me have to think I just wanna gun n' run with da craze M16 on da rollacosta 4 hour plot!"

Anwyay I hope DE3 is made as how the devs want it themselves.

I don't think gamers have been "dumbified." It's just a consequence of the expanding market.

In pure numbers, I'm willing to be the number of people that appreciate and want a challenging game is still roughly the same. But in expanding the market you have to draw in people out of that group.

As you do so it's inevitable that you bring in more and more people that just want something easy. Something they can't "lose."

Motion controls reached out and brought in even more casual and easy game wanting players. And if MS is correct about Kinect, there's going to be another blob of even more casual people entering the gamer "pool."

What I wish devs would do. Rather than trying to make a game that attempts to appeal to everyone (it's not going to happen) and failing more often than they succeed, is to just focus on what got them to where they are in the first place (for established Devs.).

But it seems right now that many devs are driven to try to hit the jackpot of appealing to most people rather than serving that core group that they appealed to in the first place.

Easier on console than PC though. The absolutely breadth of pirating on PC is going to make it a bit more difficult for anyone.

Regards,
SB

 

[Laa-Yosh]

That really wasn't my favorite part of the original game, nor is it what I like most about RPGs that I've played. I am more looking for the interactive story with interactive characters and a fascinating, interactive world to explore. Neatly quantifying my character's attributes doesn't enhance the experience much. Juggling dozens of things in my backpack doesn't either. That stuff is obviously gameplay translated to computers from pen & paper-imagined entertainment.

Exactly. Emergent gameplay does not require stats and fighting the inventory. DX3 will most likely have several important components to allow for the players to experiment, customize, and develop their own ways. I fully expect the game to have that and if this part of the gameplay is indeed simplified, I'm gonna roast the devs as much as any other fan.

But spending an extra few hours of gameplay on stat management and inventory reorganization is completely unnecessary for most players. Those who crave this kind of activity can always find a few dozen old PC titles that they haven't played yet. To me, it's just not part of the fun.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

But spending an extra few hours of gameplay on stat management and inventory reorganization is completely unnecessary for most players. Those who crave this kind of activity can always find a few dozen old PC titles that they haven't played yet. To me, it's just not part of the fun.

I'm not sure why new games can't cater to CRPG fans also. As you've said previously no game is going to be all things to all people.

The thing I find most annoying is that where once, PC gaming allowed for very diverse and niche games, that's virtually disappeared other than a few very small independant developers.

Games known for their solid RPG features should stay such IMO. There are PLENTY of action adventure easy mode games for everyone else. But very few choices for anyone that wants a good detailed game. Yes the mass market is full of casuals now, I understand. But I'd be happy if a good one like Deus Ex 1 or System Shock 2 (action/RPG hybrid) came out every 5 years.

As it is, Deus Ex 3 is shaping up to be yet another story driven shallow action/shooter that's been flooding the market lately. But maybe they'll surprise me with stuff that hasn't been shown yet.

Regards,
SB

 

[snarfbot]

the next bit of news will be a puff piece about the multiplayer modes.

seamless drop in/out coop etc. bleh.

 

[Scott_Arm]

The most important thing is that there is tons of repeated loot dropped, with little use, and that I'll have to manually stack and organize those things across multiple pages of inventory slots. That way when I pick up something useful, I'll have to sort and evaluate my inventory, by price, weight and size, so I'll know to drop the cheapest, heaviest and biggest item I'm carrying. And when I sell items, I want to be forced to sell them one at a time, rather than all at once. And if I carry too much, I want to be told I can no longer run until I discard something. That's the pinnacle of gaming right there.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Pffft, DX1 and SS2 only had a 1 page inventory.

Regards,
SB

 

[Scott_Arm]

I am now going to describe the best PC game ever. Hardcore inventory management, as described above. Then you have about sixty stats, and a massive skill tree that requires some intense math to figure out the optimal build for each of the forty playable classes. Throw in a small amount of gameplay, with mostly automated turn-based combat and a 3D Mark score at the end of the game to reaffirm your belief in how awesome your PC is. The end.

 

[Frank]

I never bother with making builds, I just pick the thing that fancies me at that moment.

 

[Snyder]

Pffft, DX1 and SS2 only had a 1 page inventory.

Indeed, no oodles of inventory pages. And stuff was scarce. (Especially in SS2 on higher difficulties...generally speaking mainly of SS2 here)
And the majority of what you found was possibly in some way useful for you.
No swathes of useless loot, hell, most of the time the stuff you found was even sensibly placed in context. Helps a ton with immersion - you know, the stuff around you actually being useful and not just backdrop.

Just because since the rise of the MMO lootfest plague no one seems to bother doing stuff like this the right way anymore, doesn't mean it hasn't been done. And "bah, we can't be bothered with that crap, lets throw it out completely..." (Yeah, Bioware, I'm looking at you. )

 

[green.pixel]

Anyone else feels that the trailer soundtrack sounds very much like Freedom Fighters - Two Steps From Hell, aka it is a ripoff?

I used to think it was becouse of devs but now I notice they are just adapting their games to appeal and suit dumbified "gamers" instead of doing what they really want to do. I guess soon games will be called movies and only interaction will be some pop-up menu at certain places to change outcome. And they will be short or else being forced to think for a minute or two about solving a problem would make those "gamers" cry, "bad game to many options!, "uhhh teh devs are stup1d makin me have to think I just wanna gun n' run with da craze M16 on da rollacosta 4 hour plot!"

Yo dawg!

Spoiler

 

[fellix]

Exclusive Gameplay Reveal Trailer

Looks like a direct feed from a console version.

 

[Riddlewire]

"Exclusive Gameplay Reveal Trailer"

Nope.
That contained about four seconds worth of gameplay. "Takedown" cutscenes aren't gameplay. Neither are story cutscenes. Very misleading label they've applied to that video.

The visuals were interesting though. What would you call that? Shade-Shading? It wasn't exactly a black border around the models. Just a shadow zone. Never seen that before.

 

[neliz]

Exclusive Gameplay Reveal Trailer

Looks like a direct feed from a console version.

There's something wrong with the video, I keep clicking "watch in HD" but the resolution of the game seems to be 540p and they forgot to turn on AA for the trailer.