Deus Ex 3 (PC)

[green.pixel]

No modern day big publisher is going to have the balls to let a dev create a game as complicated as Deus Ex.
"This industry is going to be 'by manchildren for manchildren' for a long fuckin' time."


If they can't implement "killing Anna Navarre"-like events that affect the elasticity and non-linearity of the plot, then it will fail as far as I'm concerned. You couldn't change it but you could stretch it really far, and without the fear of breaking it.

 

[swaaye]

Well, I'm interested in seeing the 2010 gaming industry's version of Deus Ex. I'm not even sure what my expectations are. As long as it's not a Gears of War play-a-like or as stupidly linear as Half Life 2, I'll probably be happy! lol

I'm not really clamoring for an exact Deus Ex 1 replica on any level.

 

[green.pixel]

Is there a game that is flawless?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

A lot of the stuff in DX1 feels annoying to me today. Gone are the days when I've been able to spend 6-7 hour sessions on weekdays with stuff like 3 parallel skill/augmentation/whatever systems, 5 types of ammo per weapon that all required inventory slots in that Tetris minigame, and so on.

The real cool stuff in DX was the emergent gameplay, coupled with small but effective storyline interactivity (some choices with different consequences, and some NPC responses to player action). Both of these can work just as well with more streamlined game systems.

DX3 already looks more complex then Mass Effect 1/2, it's OK that it probably won't have the same depth in the story/conversation/morality as well. Graphics are nice, levels are big, action seems cool, all in all I'm still pretty impressed with these short presentation movies.

 

[swaaye]

Green Pixel's link to the neogaf thread has some chat about the positives to ME2's simplification. Namely that ME1's RPG aspects were pretty bad anyway and that ME2 just honed the game to what its mixed up personality really wanted to be. I've yet to play ME2 but I definitely agree that ME1 was not exactly an exceptional game (it was just more KOTOR really, but with marginal realtime combat).

Deus Ex was somewhat unrefined, but of course it was also innovative so that's expected. It had some superfluous aspects for sure, IMO. I think the most important aspects to DX's gameplay are the exploration that it offers in its areas (although limited) and the character interaction. They can drop all of the plainly obvious stats-based gaming and I'd be fine with it. I see numerical stats as a way to get around the inability to develop a more functional interactive world and a really simple and obvious way to "develop" characters.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Mass Effect is a good example in that the most important thing nowadays is to have core gameplay that's fun and interesting and rewarding. The first game's shooter mechanics are bearable but the improvements helped the sequel a lot.
DX1 is similar here, with the impossibly sensitive silent takedowns using the baton, and the long time it takes to get a shooting skill to a reasonable level. So I agree about a lot of its hiccups being simple solutions to limit the player initially, otherwise any reasonably skilled FPS veteran could've blasted his way through the entire game very quickly.

If Eidos wants DX3 to sell well, they also need to provide a solid FPS/TPS foundation and add all the other interactions and "minigames" (hacking, conversation, skills/augs, whatever) on top of it, without taking away from the basic gameplay experience.
Now, from these videos, it looks like the balance is good, either by their own design or by learning from Bioware's experiences. The complexity is higher with more systems that are a bit more complex too, which could discourage some people - but they keep a good flow and manage to mix the various kinds of gameplays more smoothly, there aren't such abrupt changes between NPC interaction and combat action like in the ME games. In any case it looks like a far better and deeper game than what I've initially expected, and the graphics and production values have come a long way from the initial conceptual screenshots we've seen a few years ago. I'm looking forward to this game the most now... okay, maybe a little less then Reach but that's only because the Fall is around the corner

 

[Silent_Buddha]

ME2 just shows that the mass market doesn't really want an RPG.

ME1 was a RPG with a few shooter trappings.
ME2 is solidly a shooter with a few RPG trappings.

I'm still wait and see with Deus Ex 3. But I'm expecting the worst, that way I won't be disappointed if it's like number 2, and will be pleasant surprised if it's more like number 1.

Heh, the inventory and skill systems along with the storylines are still my favorite parts of both Deus Ex 1 and System Shock 2. Hence, I think I'm in for a huge disappointment with 3.

Regards,
SB

 

[Laa-Yosh]

ME2 has been widely criticized for pulling back too far and Bioware has already announced that they'll go back towards the RPG direction. Search for the GDC presentation to learn more.

 

[Davros]

They need to hire me
I will walk around the office and anytime a dev tries to implement something stupid I will slap him while chanting "no no no the gaming gods they cry"

 

[aaronspink]

Green Pixel's link to the neogaf thread has some chat about the positives to ME2's simplification. Namely that ME1's RPG aspects were pretty bad anyway and that ME2 just honed the game to what its mixed up personality really wanted to be. I've yet to play ME2 but I definitely agree that ME1 was not exactly an exceptional game (it was just more KOTOR really, but with marginal realtime combat).

ME2 is a steaming pile. No really. It now has literally no redeeming feature. Story is 1000x worst than the first one, interaction is 100x worst, etc. Basically if it might have required a 2 year old to think, it was removed. You can literally play without ever thinking once about what you are doing. Which lets be honest, makes it an FPS with really really bad gameplay.

Deus Ex was somewhat unrefined, but of course it was also innovative so that's expected. It had some superfluous aspects for sure, IMO. I think the most important aspects to DX's gameplay are the exploration that it offers in its areas (although limited) and the character interaction. They can drop all of the plainly obvious stats-based gaming and I'd be fine with it. I see numerical stats as a way to get around the inability to develop a more functional interactive world and a really simple and obvious way to "develop" characters.

If they can make it into a polished Alpha Protocol then they'll have at least achieved somewhat a descendant of the original game. If not, then they fail and we'll have to just keep playing around with AP.

 

[aaronspink]

ME2 has been widely criticized for pulling back too far and Bioware has already announced that they'll go back towards the RPG direction. Search for the GDC presentation to learn more.

Well they first need to announce that they've decided to send the dev who was responsible for the mining game to dental school to be a drilling dummy. I mean, really 5+ hours of mindless probe firing as a core part of your game? REALLY? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

ME2 has been widely criticized for pulling back too far and Bioware has already announced that they'll go back towards the RPG direction. Search for the GDC presentation to learn more.

Oooh, that just made me interested in the ME series again. Was going to totally ignore the 3rd installment if it was going to continue down the same path as ME2. Well, color me cautiously optimistic now...

Hmmm, I haven't been paying attention but has there been a rumored time frame for the release of Deus Ex 3?

Regards,
SB

 

[Laa-Yosh]

2011 as far as I know but nothing specific.

 

[green.pixel]

CGI trailer soundtrack available for download!

 

[Frank]

A lot of the stuff in DX1 feels annoying to me today. Gone are the days when I've been able to spend 6-7 hour sessions on weekdays with stuff like 3 parallel skill/augmentation/whatever systems, 5 types of ammo per weapon that all required inventory slots in that Tetris minigame, and so on.

A lot of the new games feel annoying to me today. Gone are the days when I could tinker for hours with my inventory and upgrades, and had to scavenge for ammo.

The real cool stuff in DX was the emergent gameplay, coupled with small but effective storyline interactivity (some choices with different consequences, and some NPC responses to player action). Both of these can work just as well with more streamlined game systems.

Case in point: Deus Ex 2. Only one ammo type, convenient air ducts everywhere, factions, very streamlined...

DX3 already looks more complex then Mass Effect 1/2, it's OK that it probably won't have the same depth in the story/conversation/morality as well. Graphics are nice, levels are big, action seems cool, all in all I'm still pretty impressed with these short presentation movies.

The Next Gen game only requires two buttons for the tactical part: one to go to the next cover, the other one for aiming (keep pressed to engage the auto-aim) and shooting (release).

All the other buttons are required for all the mini-games, though.


How about this: get rid of the strategic and tactical parts, and only use the story and mini-games. Much more streamlined and convenient!

But not for me.

 

[Frank]

Does anyone have a link to the gameplay footage? They're all dead. 2 GB is no problem (~6 min. download).

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Finally got a chance to check out the movies.

The environments and set pieces look good. Characters seem a bit low poly but that's not a big deal as sometime's there's quite a few of them around.

It appears that you can carry as many weapons as you want. At one point he had 5 weapons. Doubtful it has any kind of inventory management.

A lot of scripted take downs. In one he drops into a room and throws a bunch of explosives around himself. And kneels down. All the while getting shot. Pops up after with no apparent damage, bleh. So looks like you take no damage while doing a scripted takedown maybe.

Some elements of Thief here. You can drag away bodies to hide them, presumably so someone doesn't run into the body and raise an alarm.

Obviously not going for anything resembling reality. One take down has him crashing through a brick wall, yet a guard not even 50 yards away, and another on the floor right above that room hears nothing.

I still remain pretty skeptical about this game, although the graphics might be nice. Definitely Blade Runner inspired visuals. One demo level had towering chimneys with flames spewing out the tops before you entered the adventure area.

Regards,
SB

 

[swaaye]

You can carry a load of weapons in the original game too. And large quantities of some things.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Gone are the days when I could tinker for hours with my inventory and upgrades, and had to scavenge for ammo.

I don't want to play Tetris, and I don't want to run through a bunch of levels several times (and endure the repeated loading) just to be able to gather enough resources to overcome the next challenge. This is not good gameplay to me, this is artificially extending the length of the game with annoying tasks.


For the rest, you're being overzelaus.

 

[Frank]

We just have a different opinion. There is no perfect game. And I'm probably in a different focus-group than you. Which is fine.

You sound as if you know what other people have to like.