Deus Ex 3 (PC)

[swaaye]

It is sort of atmosphere-breaking I think. You're running along and pop you're suddenly presented with "press button A / key X or button B / key Y." Not exactly unobtrusive. I'm not sure why this is necessitated by a gamepad either.

I think it's purely a "style" choice by the game developers and is becoming the popular design choice in modern games. There's a lot of this thing going around too. Some PC gamers knee-jerk scream "consolitis!" but I think it really is more design preference. It probably has a "coolness" factor associated with it. Just like the auto-cover systems that are in tons of shooters now. Gamepads are not so inflexible as to prevent use of fully freeform controls for these things. Go play some older console shooters like RtCW, Perfect Dark, etc. I guess accessibility could be an argument for it though because it is easier to detach it with an on/off concept instead of making the player develop skill.

 

[Davros]

I was going to answer but hughJ said everything i wanted to say
ps: quick Q about alpha protocol. when you get that prompt if you do nothing what happens ?
does the bad guy catch you or does the game wait forever for you to make a choice ?

 

[hughJ]

when you get that prompt if you do nothing what happens ?
does the bad guy catch you or does the game wait forever for you to make a choice ?

Maybe it just auto selects the best choice and moves you on to the next encounter ;P

 

[nightshade]

I was going to answer but hughJ said everything i wanted to say
ps: quick Q about alpha protocol. when you get that prompt if you do nothing what happens ?
does the bad guy catch you or does the game wait forever for you to make a choice ?

You only get that prompt when you sneak up to someone, its not a QTE so ofcourse if you don't do anything then nothing will happen, ie. as long as you don't alert the guard. Its just a simple choice, the takedown is so fast and fluid that you won't even think of it to be 'breaking the flow' or 'immersion' , the guy who wrote that article is simply making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[green.pixel]

Even I don't understand the criticism, you get two options lethal or non lethal take down. How is that any different that you taking out a guy with a baton or you killing him with a knife ? For all I know its limited to two options as well non lethal and lethal.

Its an insta-win button. Whether it's sneaking up behind someone and getting a prompt to instantly kill him/her or killing four people at a touch of a button.

For example, In Deus Ex you had to use a baton, prod or whatever you had at your disposal and in order to take someone out, you have actually aim at them. Unlike the instant button approach, there is a chance of actually screwing up and either ending up with the enemy turning around and shooting you, or alerting the entire base.

Here, you get a prompt to either a instant silent lethal or non-lethal takedown whenever you get behind someone.


Those oversimplfiied mechanics are not arbitrary implemented, but rather to meet the needs and desires of the ADHD-era gamer who wants STYLISH SINGLE BUTTON PRESSES instead of doing an otherwise just slightly more complex manual interaction.

You only get that prompt when you sneak up to someone, its not a QTE so ofcourse if you don't do anything then nothing will happen, ie. as long as you don't alert the guard. Its just a simple choice, the takedown is so fast and fluid that you won't even think of it to be 'breaking the flow' or 'immersion' , the guy who wrote that article is simply making a mountain out of a molehill.

It's not just a simple choice. It CAN be left out easily, and these design choices are certainly not accidentaly there.

Look at what one of the HR's previews says. Are you are ok with that for example?

The takedowns, which all look incredible, are automatic kills that can be triggered when up close to an enemy. They could make combat a lot easier than it needs to be, but they also serve to make the stealth gameplay very approachable and satisfying. In one great takedown I saw, Jensen drops down from a crate, landing next to two guards who he almost immediately stabs through the neck with blades that pop out of his elbows. Does taking out a mere two guards with a single move not seem impressive enough? In another, he drops through a ceiling window, this time landing directly in the middle of four guards. Jensen then spins in a circle, releasing a ton of shells that fly toward the enemies around him and explode on impact. Four enemies dead with one stylish button press? Hard to complain about that.

Hard to complain? Lolz.

Not to mention it's cheesy as hell/catering to the lcd.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Its an insta-win button. Whether it's sneaking up behind someone and getting a prompt to instantly kill him/her or killing four people at a touch of a button.

For example, In Deus Ex you had to use a baton, prod or whatever you had at your disposal and in order to take someone out, you have actually aim at them. Unlike the instant button approach, there is a chance of actually screwing up and either ending up with the enemy turning around and shooting you, or alerting the entire base.

Uh, assuming you trained the right abilities in Deus Ex, it was a one shot take down similar to this. Except instead of a choice when you snuck up, it was a one shot takedown determined by the weapon in hand. I suppose you "could" have a muscle spasm that made you miss the enemy torso that is taking up much of your screen when you sneak up that close but, meh.

Presumably you still have the same chance of the enemy turning around and seeing you or you doing something to alert him just as you would in Deus Ex.

This is far FAR different from the last Splinter Cell game with being able to takedown up to 4 enemies at range with the press of a button. Now if DE3 actually does feature that same method of takedown, yeah I'll be happy to deride it.

Regards,
SB

 

[Frank]

Those oversimplfiied mechanics are not arbitrary implemented, but rather to meet the needs and desires of the ADHD-era gamer who wants STYLISH SINGLE BUTTON PRESSES instead of doing an otherwise just slightly more complex manual interaction.

It's not just a simple choice. It CAN be left out easily, and these design choices are certainly not accidentaly there.

Look at what one of the HR's previews says. Are you are ok with that for example?

The takedowns, which all look incredible, are automatic kills that can be triggered when up close to an enemy. They could make combat a lot easier than it needs to be, but they also serve to make the stealth gameplay very approachable and satisfying. In one great takedown I saw, Jensen drops down from a crate, landing next to two guards who he almost immediately stabs through the neck with blades that pop out of his elbows. Does taking out a mere two guards with a single move not seem impressive enough? In another, he drops through a ceiling window, this time landing directly in the middle of four guards. Jensen then spins in a circle, releasing a ton of shells that fly toward the enemies around him and explode on impact. Four enemies dead with one stylish button press? Hard to complain about that.

Hard to complain? Lolz.

Not to mention it's cheesy as hell/catering to the lcd.

Damn. That sounds really bad.

 

[Frank]

Btw, about emergent gameplay and choices: it's not about positioning all the NPC's conveniently and braindead, and giving you a choice how you want the cinematics to play out. That's more like the auto-leveling of Oblivion to the next level.

The choices and emergent gameplay of Deus Ex wasn't even about having a convenient duct or hackable computer nearby and offering three linear approaches, either (hint: DX2). I don't think I ever played any single level of Deus Ex the same way twice, and I played all of them 10+ times.

There even isn't a single, best way to finish a mission. Most objectives are optional, as is killing anyone (you don't get rewarded for doing so, which I think is huge). You are encouraged to actually try and do what you feel like, and see how that turns out. Just like in real life.

No two people play it the same way, no two walkthroughs are alike. And it all works. Someone even finished it while only using a crate. No guns, lockpicks, augmentations or whatever, just a crate.

 

[Frank]

Ok, I feel compelled to compare it to an open world game as well:

Let's take Morrowind for starters, as that is probably the most comparable and open one. Deus Ex is like that, but with the game world segmented in missions. And the options (or "hacks") bounded, instead of off-the-scale, if you feel like spending the time.

While you cannot levitate or jump across the continent, you can do some pretty spectacular things like that as well. For example, in Chinatown, the confrontation with Maggie Chang (sp?) in her apartment, can be done in so many different ways, that it's impossible to make a list that's even close to complete. Last time I did it, I jumped on some ledge on another building, sniped her through the window, and entered through it. My favourite way is probably getting on the roof and using a rocket launcher to make a lot of noise and killing all the bad guys that come spilling out, after which I can take the sword at my leisure.

And it can be skipped altogether as well. You can even forego getting the sword.

Btw, this is a nice site for unconventional walkthroughs.

 

[green.pixel]

I really don't like what I'm seeing. This better be tutorial level and/or on easy difficulty.

 

[nightshade]

That is from the very first level.

 

[Skinner]

I really don't like what I'm seeing. This better be tutorial level and/or on easy difficulty.

I agree, highlighting the objects spoils the gameplay.

 

[Skinner]

I think that Deus Ex should have more "blue".

that looks way better

 

[swaaye]

My guess is that it's a introductory thing. There's even a HUD thing mentioning tutorials.

If it's some sort of help-the-retards mechanism and isn't just on during the beginning I sure hope it can be disabled because it looks ugly and annoying for sure.

Hopefully there will be a way to turn off the ubiquitous sepia tone super duper color filter shader bullshit too.

 

[Frank]

Let's recap:

1. No full 1st person and auto-moves, so no immersion and little tactical choice. Just press the "next" button.
2. A choice of multiple, linear routes.
3. Convenient and brain-dead placement of enemies.
4. Very "gamey", cartoonish highlighting of interactable objects and objectives.
5. Cinematics are more important than gameplay.

 

[Kyyla]

Let's recap:

1. No full 1st person and auto-moves, so no immersion and little tactical choice. Just press the "next" button.
2. A choice of multiple, linear routes.
3. Convenient and brain-dead placement of enemies.
4. Very "gamey", cartoonish highlighting of interactable objects and objectives.
5. Cinematics are more important than gameplay.

As long as the story and writing is superb, I couldn't care less. If however..

 

[Bajzel]

You want a great story and writing? Go watch a movie or read a book, this is a GAME, gameplay takes priority over everything else. I'm sorry to say but the design choices they're making with this game are full of fail. Simulated skill vs player skill. The simulated skill design choice seems to be winning these days, sad.

 

[Frank]

I would like the designers to mostly build interesting and random levels, which are stitched together by story and ordered by difficulty.

"Warning: this is a completely optional, and VERY HARD level!"

 

[nightshade]

Its funny to talk about immersion being broken by minor things and yet not care about the plot and writing.

 

[swaaye]

So you are willing to push through mundane gameplay just to experience some guy's story? I'm sure they will be willing to sell you their screenplay here for $60 come release day.

I really hope the gameplay is better than it seems. The videos really seem to be explaining everything in the most obvious way and may not be that on target with how the game truly plays. We'll see...