Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2023] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[see colon]

Ok, found info that there is 64. Then there is wrong info in wikipedia.

Are you sure....

20% (it's actually 18%) is nothing these days, it's also the difference on paper and nothing ever scales 100% linear. So that 18% performance advantage on paper might only result in a 0-18% increase in reality. There's so many things within the GPU itself and in the software that can drive that 18% advantage way down, even the difference in API efficiencies can completely consume that 18% advantage.

Not only that, but there is roughly a 20% advantage in multiple specs in favor of PS5 or Series X, not just a 20% advantage in one direction. PS5's maximum GPU clock speed would give it roughly a 20% advantage in fill rate, geometry set up, culling, and other tasks. And when you look at the memory set up, Series X has about a 20% advantage in it's fastest memory and a 20% disadvantage in it's slowest. There isn't a single number that can define the capabilities of these GPUs, and these advantages and disadvantages can be leveraged or avoided to give quality results with proper optimization.

 

[chris1515]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662053052956778498

I think it will be a huge problem because studios need to ship games and do big modification of the engine is difficut.

 

[Liandry]

Fairly positive Gears 4 and 5, and Forza Horizon 4 and 5 are fairly strong contenders. Outside of resolution they run and look fantastic. They also went a step further and ran flawlessly on PC with multiplayer support.

I agree, I haven't mentioned what XBO games is some average level. Those games were great in terms of graphics for time they were released.

Most people just weren’t paying any attention to it, but these were all cross generation games and most people ignored what they looked like on XBO.

Same was with 6th and 7th gen. Lot of people didn't know how great looked last Ps2 game and PS3 or Xbox 360 games.

Ryse: Son of Rome does. Still looks beautiful after all these years.

Game lookes great even today, for sure. But still I think there was a lot of games on 8th gen what looked a lot better. I didn't speak about art design. Ryse was great in terms of art design but that is my opinion because I like ancient Rome theme. But for people wo don/' that was good looking game but not more. Ryse was too short also. Wanted what story woould be some 30-50 % longer.

I think when you used the all unmatched term I guess I was triggered.

You shouldn't, we have discussion after all.

Also, checking the title, why are we discussing PS4 games in a current gen thread?

Maybe you could transfer those messages to another thread so we can continue? Please.

 

[Riddlewire]

The Matrix Awakens is a modern Dagoth Moor Zoological Gardens.
It has done more harm than good for the gaming industry.
The only beneficiary has been Epic (which was the whole point).

 

[Liandry]

Are you sure....

Yes, take a look in consoles gpu section.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units

Not only that, but there is roughly a 20% advantage in multiple specs in favor of PS5 or Series X, not just a 20% advantage in one direction. PS5's maximum GPU clock speed would give it roughly a 20% advantage in fill rate, geometry set up, culling, and other tasks. And when you look at the memory set up, Series X has about a 20% advantage in it's fastest memory and a 20% disadvantage in it's slowest. There isn't a single number that can define the capabilities of these GPUs, and these advantages and disadvantages can be leveraged or avoided to give quality results with proper optimization.

Hold on a second.
XSX 10GB with 560GB/s
6GB with 336GB/s
OS use 2.5GB from 6GB
PS5 16GB with 448GB/s
OS use 3.5GB of 16GB
So XSX have 3.5 GB for all non GPU tasks, then PS5 for GPU tasks have 16 - 3.5 (OS) - 3.5 (same tasks as on XSX) = 9GB and with 448GB/s. If I'm correct. And if I'm correct then where is theortical advanteges of PS5 here. Ok, PS5 have 3.5GB for non GPU tasks with higher bandwith. But I don't think that will give some advantage. Or I don't know something.

About Matrix demo. I should disagree. There is no harm to industry. When I played it first effect was wow! But after some half an hour I understood tht city in demo was boring. Same or at least almost same buildings. NPCs just walk, cars just drive. If we compare city from Matrix demo to Night City from Cyberpunk, I can tell what Night City felt like living city and city from Matrix demo like simulation. Ofcourse Matrix is simulation except most of the people, but I speak about agme and demo. There is also no garbage on streets. So city from Matrix demo was like perfect world. Perfect but boring. That demo just showed what is possible on 9th gen consoles and what UE5 is capable of. I even think what some Sony and Microsoft studios will make games with better graphics for PS5 and XSX in last yers of 9th gen.

 

[iroboto]

You shouldn't, we have discussion after all.

lol.
It's not to do with the quality of games being released. But it just made it sound like it was a generational improvement as opposed to some bumps here and there. But it's pretty much been shown that the only time you get a generational improvement in graphics is when the feature set changes to something significantly better for graphics, and well more CPU is going to enable more things interacting at once.

 

[iroboto]

Yes, take a look in consoles gpu section.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units

Hold on a second.
XSX 10GB with 560GB/s
6GB with 336GB/s
OS use 2.5GB from 6GB
PS5 16GB with 448GB/s
OS use 3.5GB of 16GB
So XSX have 3.5 GB for all non GPU tasks, then PS5 for GPU tasks have 16 - 3.5 (OS) - 3.5 (same tasks as on XSX) = 9GB and with 448GB/s. If I'm correct. And if I'm correct then where is theortical advanteges of PS5 here. Ok, PS5 have 3.5GB for non GPU tasks with higher bandwith. But I don't think that will give some advantage. Or I don't know something.

Yea, if you want to stay in that high bandwidth range, you're going to restrict xbox to 10GB of VRAM or get really good at shuffling or know precisely when you can afford that lower bandwidth.

I don't think it's as big of a deal as many are making out to be however. You need more bandwidth to feed more CUs, there's not really anyway around it.

The VRAM setup of PS5 is more ideal in all cases.
The XSX VRAM setup, will get pinched a little harder as frame rate increases (60fps has double the CPU memory requirements of 30fps, and 120fps has quadruple the CPU memory requirements).
I use the word pinched, because both PS5 and XSX are HUMA, so they are going to be accessing the same memory addresses for anything that needs to be drawn on screen and objects don't need to be copied etc.
I really don't know how much XSX accesses it's slow portion outside of OS and audio.

 

[davis.anthony]

Yes, take a look in consoles gpu section.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units

Series-X actually has 32 ROPS, with doubled pump colour(??)

Looking at it there's a lot of mistakes in that WiKi page.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Maybe you could transfer those messages to another thread so we can continue? Please.

I don't understand how though. What's the thread title? I was thinking "8th Generation Game Analysis Technical Discussion" but you also threw 7th gen in there. We can't realistically have a thread comparing every console to every other. The best threads start with a question. What do you want to know? Start a new thread.

 

[troyan]

A summary of the technical state of the latest (bigger) games:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662135880721612801

*missing TLoU PC release and Redfall

 

[iroboto]

A summary of the technical state of the latest (bigger) games:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662135880721612801

*missing TLoU PC release and Redfall

Yea that’s not really acceptable.
There is something inherently fucked with the formula to making games. They really need to have a completed game they enjoy playing before they decide to actually build a vertical slice.

Publishers are green lighting the wrong games here.

 

[Remij]

A summary of the technical state of the latest (bigger) games:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662135880721612801

*missing TLoU PC release and Redfall

A lot of dev studios have been awful sorry lately for what I've been told is GPU vendor's fault!

How nice of them.

 

[Nesh]

You guy's do know 'better looking' is subjective right?

 

[digitalwanderer]

The Matrix Awakens is a modern Dagoth Moor Zoological Gardens.
It has done more harm than good for the gaming industry.
The only beneficiary has been Epic (which was the whole point).

I had to look up the Dagoth reference and I agree with you, but I'd also mention that they released it not only for Epic but also to promote the movie so it benefited two shitty things.

 

[digitalwanderer]

A lot of dev studios have been awful sorry lately for what I've been told is GPU vendor's fault!

How nice of them.

Who told you it's the GPU vendor's fault, or at least how is it their fault?

 

[chris1515]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662166716892479488

The reaction to the Playstation showcase is so negative, ND decided to react.

 

[chris1515]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662174968384311296

It is probably because about this.

 

[Inuhanyou]

People are probably discussing developer talents not exactly hw power when we talk about things like zero dawn and tlou2 last gen compared to Xbox one games. Entirely different priorities for each

 

[Scott_Arm]

The reality is we need procedural generative or ai accelerated tools to build games, and some hard technical problems related to parallelism and multi threading need to be solved.

It’s not just games. It’s software in general. The scale of programs is outpacing the developer environment. Most improvements to developer productivity come at the expense of the user (performance etc) and game devs can’t live with that. They continue to hack away at c++ code based, shooting themselves in the foot, limping into the future.

Frostbite was the first engine where you really heard about it with mass effect andromeda and anthem. Then similar stories about the Hslo infinite engine, unity, UE4 and so on.

 

[Remij]

Who told you it's the GPU vendor's fault, or at least how is it their fault?

I'm sorry, I'm just being a bit petty. A user here had mentioned how a lot of these new releases with issues are the fault of GPU vendors not releasing GPUs with sufficient amounts of VRAM.

I should have put a /s... my bad.