Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2023] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Flappy Pannus]

Haha as was I. I get it now though. What a weird decision to have it always enabled.

Edit: They responded to my thread on Steam.. patch to fix it should arrive in the next couple of days.

Wait.. they added DLSS3 frame generation, but not a toggle to turn it on or off? :: Sackboy™: A Big Adventure General Discussions

Devs.. please add the option in the game menu. Frame generation shouldn't be on by default when turning DLSS on... we should have the option to enable each separately. Also, the game has some new stuttering issues that weren't there before.. and having any RT setting on will also cause stutters.

steamcommunity.com

As you mentioned there seem to be a few new stutters as well, even on a non-Ada card like my 3060. Minor but pretty sure I never saw them before, as well navigating through the settings menu now is very jerky.

 

[Remij]

As you mentioned there seem to be a few new stutters as well, even on a non-Ada card like my 3060. Minor but pretty sure I never saw them before, as well navigating through the settings menu now is very jerky.

Yes, that's right! The jerky menu transitions when tabbing through them wasn't like that before either.. I forgot to mention that.

 

[Remij]

Sackboy patch has been released and they added the ability to toggle frame generation on or off, as well as Nvidia Reflex.

Also the stuttering issues that cropped up after that latest patch appear to have been fixed for me.. and the menu tab switching is smooth again (I only tested with FG off as I literally have no reason to enable it in this game)

I still think it's funny that they don't have a shader compiling screen and just let the game stutter while the intro logo videos are playing and it's compiling though.. lol

 

[pjbliverpool]

Sackboy patch has been released and they added the ability to toggle frame generation on or off, as well as Nvidia Reflex.

Also the stuttering issues that cropped up after that latest patch appear to have been fixed for me.. and the menu tab switching is smooth again (I only tested with FG off as I literally have no reason to enable it in this game)

I still think it's funny that they don't have a shader compiling screen and just let the game stutter while the intro logo videos are playing and it's compiling though.. lol

Superb. I had faith this would be fixed quickly!

 

[snc]

Stats: https://bit.ly/3FcaAyl

 

[Globalisateur]

Stats: https://bit.ly/3FcaAyl

Interestingly he found a sharpening filter on XSX, not on PS5. That could explain a bit why the game looks sharper on XSX (even when all filters, CA and such are OFF). We can even see there is more aliasing on XSX so some part of the rendering is clearly less refined here. It's just that the sharpening filter makes the image perceptually higher resolution on XSX at least in the resolution mode.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Interestingly he found a sharpening filter on XSX, not on PS5. That could explain a bit why the game looks sharper on XSX (even when all filters, CA and such are OFF). We can even see there is more aliasing on XSX so some part of the rendering is clearly less refined here. It's just that the sharpening filter makes the image perceptually higher resolution on XSX at least in the resolution mode.

He also says the res is generally higher on PS5 in performance mode which suprised me. Can a sharpening pass really give Xbox series such better results? I wonder if they will add in sharpening filter for PS5 in patch then, it seems like something like that shouldn't have anything to do with performance

 

[assurdum]

He also says the res is generally higher on PS5 in performance mode which suprised me. Can a sharpening pass really give Xbox series such better results? I wonder if they will add in sharpening filter for PS5 in patch then, it seems like something like that shouldn't have anything to do with performance

Does the lens distortion setting cause half rendered pixels issue too on XSX? Because if not, it confirms reconstruction was worse on PS5 though in theory should be the same. Maybe they used the sony hardware CBR to save performance? Because such issue is very common in sony first parties games, Ghost of Tsushima too was very fuzzy and unstable in the vegetation rendering. Anyway I noticed immediately XSX had a sharpening filter, it's quite apparent in the textures details.

 

[Globalisateur]

Does the lens distortion setting cause half rendered pixels issue too on XSX? Because if not, it confirms reconstruction was worse on PS5 though in theory should be the same. Maybe they used the sony hardware CBR to save performance? Because such issue is very common in sony first parties games, Ghost of Tsushima too was very fuzzy and unstable in the vegetation rendering. Anyway I noticed immediately XSX had a sharpening filter, it's quite apparent in the textures details.

No those effects (main culprit being CA) do not impact that version that much. It seems many of the post effects (like CA, alphas and maybe some lighting) are rendered at half resolution on PS5 so it really helps to turn CA off there. But we can still see lower resolution effects (alphas, lighting?) creating artefacts on the Sony hardware which would explain the unstability in motion. There is something broken in the reconstruction rendering on PS5 even if some parts are better.

It reminds me the mess that was the 60fps mode on Horizon before the optimization patch. They had shimmering on geometry and low resolution alphas creating nasty artefacts. BTW they don't use any custom Pro / PS5 hardware in that game for the rendering.

One thing is sure. The game has clearly not being optimized well on PS5 and one could say the optimization was better on XSX (like adding a cheap sharpening pass to improve the final image and making sure effects were not creating unwanted visual outcomes).

 

[assurdum]

No those effects (main culprit being CA) do not impact that version that much. It seems many of the post effects (like CA, alphas and maybe some lighting) are rendered at half resolution on PS5 so it really helps to turn CA off there. But we can still see lower resolution effects (alphas, lighting?) creating artefacts on the Sony hardware which would explain the unstability in motion. There is something broken in the reconstruction rendering on PS5 even if some parts are better.

It reminds me the mess that was the 60fps mode on Horizon before the optimization patch. They had shimmering on geometry and low resolution alphas creating nasty artefacts. BTW they don't use any custom Pro / PS5 hardware in that game for the rendering.

One thing is sure. The game has clearly not being optimized well on PS5 and one could say the optimization was better on XSX (like adding a cheap sharpening pass to improve the final image and making sure effects were not creating unwanted visual outcomes).

But CBR is half resolution rendering effects in any cases, I don't get it why such artifacts are not present on post processing effects also on XSX too. The only explaination to me it's ps5 uses hardware CBR and XSX software CBR but it's laughable an hardware method it ended to be worse of the software one.

 

[Globalisateur]

But CBR is half resolution rendering effects in any cases, I don't get it why such artifacts are not present on post processing effects also on XSX too. The only explaination to me it's ps5 uses hardware CBR and XSX software CBR but it's laughable an hardware method it ended to be worse of the software one.

CBR implementations vary a lot. Some parts of the pipeline run at half (or quarter) resolution, others run at full resolution. Usually developers select such or such resolution for each components based on results / performance cost and this is where the optimization really matters. Also it depends how the TAA works with reconstruction. We have seen in Horizon 2 that optimizing the TAA immensely improved the final image (without visibly impacting performance).

"CBR hardware" on PS5 should not really called like this because it's actually a buffer (hardware unit) that can also be used to accelerate many TAA implementations or even more general rendering stuff. It was used in Dark Souls remastered TAA to remove ghosting and we know Horizon developers could have used it to accelerate a part of the rendering (not TAA / reconstruction related) but decided not to because of the PS4 version.

 

[GhostofWar]

The game has clearly not being optimized well on PS5

I wonder if these lower resolution effects compared to xbox versions are because this is supposed to have some psvr2 mode coming, did they just use the settings they will need to use for that but didn't bother changing anything for the none vr/base version? Just a thought.

 

[assurdum]

CBR implementations vary a lot. Some parts of the pipeline run at half (or quarter) resolution, others run at full resolution. Usually developers select such or such resolution for each components based on results / performance cost and this is where the optimization really matters. Also it depends how the TAA works with reconstruction. We have seen in Horizon 2 that optimizing the TAA immensely improved the final image (without visibly impacting performance).

"CBR hardware" on PS5 should not really called like this because it's actually a buffer (hardware unit) that can also be used to accelerate many TAA implementations or even more general rendering stuff. It was used in Dark Souls remastered TAA to remove ghosting and we know Horizon developers could have used it to accelerate a part of the rendering (not TAA / reconstruction related) but decided not to because of the PS4 version.

I'm not an engineer but CBR from what I knew it's always half "fixed" native full resolution, so whatever effects inside it's half fixed rendered naturally and typically other graphic effects has always lower resolution than final full frame buffer (and honestly full resolution just for graphic effects seem so weird because CBR seems almost pointless, full geometry rendering it's cheaper than other effects) ; I knew ps4/5 has dedicated id buffer but also they have a dedicated CBR, at least it's what even Crystal Dynamic confirmed time ago.

 

[see colon]

I wonder if these lower resolution effects compared to xbox versions are because this is supposed to have some psvr2 mode coming, did they just use the settings they will need to use for that but didn't bother changing anything for the none vr/base version? Just a thought.

It would be wild if PSVR2 is holding back image quality on PS5 nearly as much as Series S is holding back Series X

 

[assurdum]

I wonder if these lower resolution effects compared to xbox versions are because this is supposed to have some psvr2 mode coming, did they just use the settings they will need to use for that but didn't bother changing anything for the none vr/base version? Just a thought.

It would be wild if PSVR2 is holding back image quality on PS5 nearly as much as Series S is holding back Series X

I don't see how could be remotely possible. Such artifacts are quite 'standard' in CBR rendering, the fact are not apparent on XSX doesn't mean effects are higher rendered imo. Anyway capcom is not particularly talented to avoid artifacts but for unknows reasons on xbox were always less apparent (I remind SSR was less noisy on xbox console). IMO Their SSR solution is still the most horrendous of the industry, I doubt they'll ever care to fix IQ stuff in the ps5 version.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Sackboy patch has been released and they added the ability to toggle frame generation on or off, as well as Nvidia Reflex.

Also the stuttering issues that cropped up after that latest patch appear to have been fixed for me.. and the menu tab switching is smooth again (I only tested with FG off as I literally have no reason to enable it in this game)

I still think it's funny that they don't have a shader compiling screen and just let the game stutter while the intro logo videos are playing and it's compiling though.. lol

Yeah, that and still not adding FSR2 either. Made a note in reply to their patch notes that maybe these are more important areas to focus on.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

VGTech takes a look at RE4. They're about the only outlet other than DF which are consistently reliable. They note the reason(s) I likely found the image quality on the PS5 so soft. Yeah the lens distortion/chromatic ab are screwed with checkerboarding, easy enough to fix as disabling them really doesn't remove much of the style but odd as this wasn't the case in RE2/3/8 on the PS5 (or at least wasn't nearly as apparent).

Lens distortion and chromatic aberration were disabled for this test. These effects resolve to half horizontal resolution on PlayStation consoles using checkerboard rendering which results in noticeably degraded image quality.

All three consoles in all modes appear to be using checkerboard rendering to reach their stated resolutions. Despite the resolutions that the consoles are rendering at, the image quality on PS5 can look softer and less stable than Xbox Series X. This seems like it could be caused by differences in the checkerboard rendering and anti-aliasing between the consoles. Based on how edges appear on both consoles, it also seems like Xbox Series X has a degree of sharpening not present on PS5

PS5 in Prioritise Frame Rate Mode renders at a resolution of approximately 3435x1932.
Xbox Series X in Prioritise Frame Rate Mode renders at a resolution of approximately 3214x1808.
Xbox Series S in Prioritise Frame Rate Mode renders at a resolution of 1920x1080.
PS5 and Xbox Series X in Prioritise Resolution Mode render at a resolution of 3840x2160.
Xbox Series S in Prioritise Resolution Mode renders at a resolution of 2560x1440.

On a related note, video comparing FSR to the DLSS mod in RE4. As I noted in my video about this mod with RE3, a lot of post processing will interfere with this mod so it's far from perfect and this RE4 snippet is a small segment that doesn't showcase them, but goddamn look at the image quality and performance difference. To be fair from my experience playing through the demo that is kind of a worst-case sceneario for FSR2, you don't see that egregious flickering in other parts of the demo. However, while FSR2 is great as an open standard and it's definitely superior to interlaced mode - it's still not a substitute for DLSS. Include both ffs.

(Also look at DLAA compared to native. Damn.)

 

[assurdum]

VGTech takes a look at RE4. They're about the only outlet other than DF which are consistently reliable. They note the reason(s) I likely found the image quality on the PS5 so soft. Yeah the lens distortion/chromatic ab are screwed with checkerboarding, easy enough to fix as disabling them really doesn't remove much of the style but odd as this wasn't the case in RE2/3/8 on the PS5 (or at least wasn't nearly as apparent).

I forgot about it. So true, such issues weren't so visible in the past; considered the lower resolution on the Pro such half resolution broken edge with chromatic aberration should be even more apparent than now.

 

[davis.anthony]

Wasn't sure where to put this and this thread seemed like a good place.

My 1440p monitor can can accept a native 4k input and automatically downsampled it to 1440p, this means if I want downsampling I don't have to mess around with DRS or any other trickery as every modern games has 4k showing as an option in the menu.

So I've been playing with CP2077 and it's DLSS modes and found that:

1. Native 1440p looks loads better than DLSS balanced (Balanced is often recommended for 1440p)

2. Balanced mode misses loads of fine detail compared to native 1440p but does provide a more stable image.

3. Setting the games output resolution to 4k with DLSS performance mode produces an infinitely better image than both native 1440p and 1440p DLSS balanced mode.

With option 3 the game is going from 1080p to 4k via DLSS and then the monitor downsampling back to 1440p and it looks awesome.

This attached shots show what I'm seeing and the barb wire shows the difference between perfectly.

I'm going to try some more games and see what the results are.

I'm sure you can do a similar thing if you use CRU to add a 4k option and use the GPU scaling option in the control panel.

 

[Jupiter]

Was sure where to put this and this thread seemed like a good place.

My 1440p monitor is unlike many as it can can accept a native 4k input and automatically downsample it to 1440p, this means if I want downsampling I don't have to mess about with DRS or any other trickery as every modern games has 4k showing as an option in the menu.

So I've been playing with CP2077 and it's DLSS modes and found that:

1. Native 1440p looks loads better than DLSS balanced (Balanced is often recommended for 1440p)
2. Balanced mode misses loads of fine detail compared to native 1440p but does provide a more stable image.
3. Setting the games output resolution to 4k with DLSS on performance mode produces an infinitely better image that both native 1440p and 1440p DLSS balanced mode.

With option 3 the game is 1080p to 4k using DLSS and then the monitor downsampling back to 1440p and it looks awesome, I wish there was a way for me to capture it as MSI Afterburner grabs just show a 3840x2160 .PNG image as it can't show the downsampling my monitor is doing internally.

This shows what I'm seeing, the barb wire shows what I'm talking about.

How fast is UHD DLSS performance compared to native 1440p?


Currently, 2.5.1 DLSS is said to be the best. You can simply exchange the DLL.

NVIDIA DLSS DLL 3.8.10 Download

This download provides various versions of NVIDIA's DLSS DLL for download. In this one file, which is bundled with all games that support NVIDIA's

www.techpowerup.com

The game uses an older version. However, I have not tested all versions after 2.5.1.