Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2023] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Remij]

UE5 simulates physics and which physics are you referring to? I didn't see any interesting physics in the trailer that stood out. I think maybe their water simulation but, different teams will choose how they handle that. As to your claim that the quality would drop massively if they added everything in, that's actually juxtaposed to nanite. The whole point of Nanite is to counteract that so I'm not sure....

That's production quality which is something I never argued. Rockstar are best in class at keeping their worlds cohesive. As to claims about pop-in, I'll wait till the game releases to comment on that.

Wh, what physics am I referring to?

Hair physics that don't clip, muscle deformation, car physics with roll and sway, wind physics with also affect the water physics, destruction physics..

The point IS that the production is next gen quality... And you're already making a ton of claims off of a video, why are you stopping at pop-in? Use your eyes and judge the video as it is. What open world game has less pop-in? I'll wait.

 

[Remij]

I don't think my standards are impossibly high. If you work on a game for 12 years, the minimum I expect is that your game is bigger, more fleshed out and more cohesive than other games. You worked on the game for significantly more time that others so you should produce higher quality. Like I said earlier, its something that only Rockstar have the privilege to do. They've of course earned that privilege but, they're only competing against themselves.

lol so what are you arguing? You're just not impressible? What's going to impress you... some game that has a hallway that's more detailed than any other hallway you've seen before? How much more detailed do you think hallways are going to get in games?

 

[BitByte]

Maybe. It just didn't stand out everywhere like it usually does.

Here are some screenshots. Like i said, it could be fsr, could be low res, could just be some bad taa. I certainly noticed it right away.

 

[function]

I don't think my standards are impossibly high. If you work on a game for 12 years, the minimum I expect is that your game is bigger, more fleshed out and more cohesive than other games. You worked on the game for significantly more time that others so you should produce higher quality. Like I said earlier, its something that only Rockstar have the privilege to do. They've of course earned that privilege but, they're only competing against themselves.

They haven't just worked on this game in the last 12 years, they've also put out RDR2 which was perhaps the most impressive game of last generation.

 

[Remij]

@BitByte what games ARE next gen to you?

 

[Nesh]

In terms of density, RDR2 doesn't come close because it's an entirely different type of game. In terms of character rendering and general visuals, I'm not so sure. This does not look like a significant step up from that in terms of character rendering, cloth physics, etc at least to me. Rockstar is the only developer who makes this type of game and the last version of GTA was a ps3 game so yea?

I feel like I would be disappointed if this is considered the best looking game of the generation. I feel like I've already seen better this gen like the matrix awakens demo which strikes me as more impressive in both geometric complexity, lighting, etc. Maybe it's the combination of artstyle and what not but yea.

Yea but like i said above, only rockstar makes these type of games. It's their niche and no one attempts it as the cost of entry is far too high for anyone else to consider it.

This is a full fledged open world game with multiple systems and simulations such us pedestrian behaviors, cars, weather systems etc running concurrently to create a whole complex world running at much higher fidelity than other games of the same or similar genre. There is no open world game that comes close visually. You are picking games much smaller in scale with a focus of resources on specific visual elements.

 

[BitByte]

@BitByte what games ARE next gen to you?

Very good question. Before I answer, I just want to say that people should not misinterpret my sentiment to mean, next gen = good and cross gen = bad. I think the game looks good but, I'm simply not wowed by it.

Next gen to me falls under these categories:

• Technology that enables gameplay opportunities not possible on previous hardware. An example of this is watch dogs legion. Ubisoft tried a new approach where you could recruit any citizen. In ubisoft style, it was hollow and shallow. However, the idea of truly interacting with all npcs to create organic and unique side stories is an idea that I had seen realized before. I could be wrong but it was new to me.
• New rendering technologies that enable a quality of rendering not possible on previous hardware. By this, I'm referring to the likes of nanite or lumen, or raytracing, path tracing, new implementations of voxels, etc.
• New animation technology that renders a quality of animation not possible on previous hardware. If it's possible at a reduced scale, it does not count as "next gen" for me. An example of this is motion matching introduced in the ps4 generation. It rendered a quality of animation that could not run on ps360.
• New Physics simulation that enables a level of physics not possible on previous hardware. If it's possible at a reduced scale, it does not count as "next gen" for me. This one is difficult because when we consider the feats accomplished on ps360(red faction, battlefield, gta 4 & 5), ps4(battlefield), switch(Zelda), it's very hard to be impressed by the physics on these new consoles. We'd need a new level of granularity and object persistence for me to be impressed.

Essentially, It's the reason I don't consider GTA VI to be next gen. All I see is very polished last gen tech that we saw used in different games put into one game. It's excellent but, it doesn't make me go wow I guess.

@techuse fair.

 

[techuse]

What do people think of GTA VI's graphics? I've watched the trailer a few times and I think it looks cross-gen. It'll be interesting to hear what others think.

If it released today looking like the trailer, I would consider it the best looking game by a solid margin. I would be satisfied with this level of visuals for the generation.

 

[Below2D]

Very good question. Before I answer, I just want to say that people should not misinterpret my sentiment to mean, next gen = good and cross gen = bad. I think the game looks good but, I'm simply not wowed by it.

Next gen to me falls under these categories:

• Technology that enables gameplay opportunities not possible on previous hardware. An example of this is watch dogs legion. Ubisoft tried a new approach where you could recruit any citizen. In ubisoft style, it was hollow and shallow. However, the idea of truly interacting with all npcs to create organic and unique side stories is an idea that I had seen realized before. I could be wrong but it was new to me.
• New rendering technologies that enable a quality of rendering not possible on previous hardware. By this, I'm referring to the likes of nanite or lumen, or raytracing, path tracing, new implementations of voxels, etc.
• New animation technology that renders a quality of animation not possible on previous hardware. If it's possible at a reduced scale, it does not count as "next gen" for me. An example of this is motion matching introduced in the ps4 generation. It rendered a quality of animation that could not run on ps360.
• New Physics simulation that enables a level of physics not possible on previous hardware. If it's possible at a reduced scale, it does not count as "next gen" for me. This one is difficult because when we consider the feats accomplished on ps360(red faction, battlefield, gta 4 & 5), ps4(battlefield), switch(Zelda), it's very hard to be impressed on these new consoles.

Essentially, It's the reason I don't consider GTA VI to be next gen. All I see is very polished last gen tech that we saw used in different games put into one game. It's excellent but, it doesn't make me go wow I guess.

@techuse fair.

You saw a 1:30-minute trailer. I'm sure the simulation, AI, and world interactions will be unprecedented and push city simulation to the next level. Not a fan of GTA games, haven't been since GTA SA but I can't deny Rockstar's prowess when it comes to crafting worlds.

 

[BitByte]

You saw a 1:30-minute trailer. I'm sure the simulation, AI, and world interactions will be unprecedented and push city simulation to the next level. Not a fan of GTA games, haven't been since GTA SA but I can't deny Rockstar's prowess when it comes to crafting worlds.

Fair. Personally speaking, I'm expecting an iteration on their previous work with a vast increase in scope. I don't expect anything revolutionary but, I'd like to be pleasantly surprised. I expect to see the same "scripting of events" around the player as opposed to true simulation but, i could be wrong.

 

[Karamazov]

 

[chris1515]

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Really?

Yes, really. I get that this is your 'thing', but that is just so, so obviously next gen. Hell I'm not even a huge GTA fan, but that is very clearly visually impressive.

 

[Pinstripe]

First game that looks and feels genuinely Next Current gen. To be released in 2025.... That's 5 years after the current gen consoles. Until now, the rest of the industry was too busy making Last Gen games with shiny coats.

 

[BitByte]

Yes, really. I get that this is your 'thing', but that is just so, so obviously next gen. Hell I'm not even a huge GTA fan, but that is very clearly visually impressive.

I mean opinions man, that's kinda of how they work .

First game that looks and feels genuinely Next Current gen. To be released in 2025.... That's 5 years after the current gen consoles. Until now, the rest of the industry was too busy making Last Gen games with shiny coats.

Yea, this gen has been very dead although there have been some good games. I'm still waiting for my wow moment on the consoles though. Path tracing has been good on pc but on consoles, it's been kinda whatever for me.

 

[Nesh]

Very good question. Before I answer, I just want to say that people should not misinterpret my sentiment to mean, next gen = good and cross gen = bad. I think the game looks good but, I'm simply not wowed by it.

Next gen to me falls under these categories:

• Technology that enables gameplay opportunities not possible on previous hardware. An example of this is watch dogs legion. Ubisoft tried a new approach where you could recruit any citizen. In ubisoft style, it was hollow and shallow. However, the idea of truly interacting with all npcs to create organic and unique side stories is an idea that I had seen realized before. I could be wrong but it was new to me.
• New rendering technologies that enable a quality of rendering not possible on previous hardware. By this, I'm referring to the likes of nanite or lumen, or raytracing, path tracing, new implementations of voxels, etc.
• New animation technology that renders a quality of animation not possible on previous hardware. If it's possible at a reduced scale, it does not count as "next gen" for me. An example of this is motion matching introduced in the ps4 generation. It rendered a quality of animation that could not run on ps360.
• New Physics simulation that enables a level of physics not possible on previous hardware. If it's possible at a reduced scale, it does not count as "next gen" for me. This one is difficult because when we consider the feats accomplished on ps360(red faction, battlefield, gta 4 & 5), ps4(battlefield), switch(Zelda), it's very hard to be impressed by the physics on these new consoles. We'd need a new level of granularity and object persistence for me to be impressed.

Essentially, It's the reason I don't consider GTA VI to be next gen. All I see is very polished last gen tech that we saw used in different games put into one game. It's excellent but, it doesn't make me go wow I guess.

@techuse fair.

You don't need completely new redesigned/re-invented rendering and simulation technologies to achieve next gen fidelity. Even without Lumen or Nanite this is definitely not a cross gen looking title. The visual quality is over the roof and the world is overly dense, varied, populated and alive beyond anything seen including the Matrix tech demo (which uses Nanite and Lumen) based on this trailer which is another sign of next gen.
As for gameplay, this isn't a gameplay trailer

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yea, this gen has been very dead although there have been some good games. I'm still waiting for my wow moment on the consoles though. Path tracing has been good on pc but on consoles, it's been kinda whatever for me.

I'm thinking you're going to end the generation not seeing anything you consider next-gen.

 

[BitByte]

I'm thinking you're going to end the generation not seeing anything you consider next-gen.

I sincerely doubt it. I've already seen it on pc and consoles are just lagging behind. It'll come and when it does, it'll be very very obvious. As good as the GTA trailer looks, i expect it to be easily surpassed.

 

[sinTheta]

I've already seen it on pc and consoles are just lagging behind.

Which game on PC looks better than this trailer? Maybe it's only me, but GTA6 looks miles above anything else I've played on PC, especially if you factor in city size, NPC density and all those tiny details like hair simulation. Hard to believe that this can run on a PS5.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I mean opinions man, that's kinda of how they work .

I'm saying that if we're 3 years in and you're still constantly saying nothing on consoles is 'truly next gen', and even massive studios with nearly unlimited budgets can't deliver that - then it may finally be time to recognize your definition of next-gen is arbitrary, and/or irrational.

If you want to critique the marketing of Sony/Xbox in trying to set unrealistic expectations, fine. They always do that every gen, and it's always fair to critique advertising and insufficiently critical tech/gaming press. I don't think it should be surprising though to anyone who regularly posts on a forum like this. We've had enough time where anyone who follows this industry to even a small degree should be able to set their expectations accordingly wrt what is actually achievable given the power on tap.

I've already seen it on pc and consoles are just lagging behind

What PC though? You've seen next-gen rendering on $300 GPU's at high frame rates? Really? How is what $800-$2000 GPU's are achieving relative to what consoles can deliver when their hardware specs were finalized years ago in order to deliver at mass market price points and thermal/power envelopes relevant? It's not.