Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2023] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Remij]

The real reason for 12 (!!!) years of development time is because "rockstar" gives a crap about the real needs of gamers because they sold 100+ million copies of a single game, business...

Looks nice, two years later...

What?

 

[Remij]

Really? I'm not talking about the scale or the production quality. Rockstar makes one of a kind games. I mean, it's next gen in the sense that GTA 5 was a ps3 game so this is definitely a generational leap from that.... However, the game started development in 2014, 6 years before the release of the PS5 and Series X. When I look at the visuals, it looks like it's from that era but just more dense with more of everything. Do you feel that its more impressive than some of the stuff pushed out by UE5? Visually speaking....

So what you're saying is that it needs to be next gen OVER anything current gen that's already been shown...?

Yes, what is shown here is several levels better than anything that's been released using Unreal Engine 5. To me, it's no longer quality of the pixels which denotes something as more next gen as something else.. it's all the ancillary details which are added above and beyond that. It's animation flourishes and blending. It's AI routines, it's skin and muscles realistically folding and reacting to light.. it's hair that doesn't clip and reacts more naturally.. it's physics on clothing.. ect ect...

Am I reading you right that you think GTA6 looks like a more dense PS4/XO generation game?

What improvements were you hoping for and realistically expecting to see? I'm curious.

 

[function]

The real reason for 12 (!!!) years of development time is because "rockstar" gives a crap about the real needs of gamers because they sold 100+ million copies of a single game, business...

Looks nice, two years later...

A lot of the staff from GTAV moved onto RDR2. Then they moved back onto GTA VI once their role in creating RDR2 was done.

They've been developing games solidly, to the best of their ability, making best possible uses of company resources across move than one AAA blockbuster product.

 

[trinibwoy]

Really? I'm not talking about the scale or the production quality. Rockstar makes one of a kind games. I mean, it's next gen in the sense that GTA 5 was a ps3 game so this is definitely a generational leap from that.... However, the game started development in 2014, 6 years before the release of the PS5 and Series X. When I look at the visuals, it looks like it's from the best visuals of that era but just more dense with more of everything. Do you feel that its more impressive than some of the stuff pushed out by UE5? Visually speaking....

Well the geometric density itself is demanding on hardware and contributes significantly to the visuals. Character models look fantastic for an open world game. Hopefully the trailer is representative.

We haven’t seen a UE5 open world game so can’t really compare.

 

[BitByte]

So what you're saying is that it needs to be next gen OVER anything current gen that's already been shown...?

Yes, what is shown here is several levels better than anything that's been released using Unreal Engine 5.

Am I reading you right that you think GTA6 looks like a more dense PS4/XO generation game?

What improvements were you hoping for and realistically expecting to see? I'm curious.

Yea I do. I think if I reflect on the best looking moments in linear ps4/xboxone games, it's just that done being done at an open world scale. It's great that it's being done but I'm not wowed. I've watched the trailer over 10 times and yea, I dunno.

 

[Nesh]

What do people think of GTA VI's graphics? I've watched the trailer a few times and I think it looks cross-gen. It'll be interesting to hear what others think.

What open world game on PS4 looks like this? RDR2 doesn't even come close

 

[BitByte]

Well the geometric density itself is demanding on hardware and contributes significantly to the visuals. Character models look fantastic for an open world game. Hopefully the trailer is representative.

We haven’t seen a UE5 open world game so can’t really compare.

True but we have seen a demo which is the matrix awakens. In terms of geometric density, I do not think the trailer is superior to what Nanaite was doing in that demo. I could be wrong but those are my initial first impressions.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Yea I do. I think if I reflect on the best looking moments in linear ps4/xboxone games, it's just that done being done at an open world scale. It's great that it's being done but I'm not wowed. I've watched the trailer over 10 times and yea, I dunno.

Well, if it matches what's shown in the trailer, it'll be the best looking game this generation, IMO. There's always a chance someone will show something that looks better later in the generation. Keep in mind, how something looks is highly subjective, so if you don't feel this represent the best or is among the best of this generation, fair enough.

Technically? We won't know until it's released and we can take a deeper dive into what they are or aren't doing.

That said, no other game this generation thus far looks to have combined as many various techniques and elements as well as RockStar was done with what has been teased for GTA VI, IMO.

Regards,
SB

 

[BitByte]

What open world game on PS4 looks like this? RDR2 doesn't even come close

In terms of density, RDR2 doesn't come close because it's an entirely different type of game. In terms of character rendering and general visuals, I'm not so sure. This does not look like a significant step up from that in terms of character rendering, cloth physics, etc at least to me. Rockstar is the only developer who makes this type of game and the last version of GTA was a ps3 game so yea?

Well, if it matches what's shown in the trailer, it'll be the best looking game this generation, IMO. There's always a chance someone will show something that looks better later in the generation. Keep in mind, how something looks is highly subjective, so if you don't feel this represent the best or is among the best of this generation, fair enough.

I feel like I would be disappointed if this is considered the best looking game of the generation. I feel like I've already seen better this gen like the matrix awakens demo which strikes me as more impressive in both geometric complexity, lighting, etc. Maybe it's the combination of artstyle and what not but yea.

That said, no other game this generation thus far looks to have combined as many various techniques and elements as well as RockStar was done with what has been teased for GTA VI, IMO.

Yea but like i said above, only rockstar makes these type of games. It's their niche and no one attempts it as the cost of entry is far too high for anyone else to consider it.

 

[Karamazov]

True but we have seen a demo which is the matrix awakens. In terms of geometric density, I do not think the trailer is superior to what Nanaite was doing in that demo. I could be wrong but those are my initial first impressions.

matrix demo does look incredible, but there is no vegetation, no hair physics, NPCs look worse, everything apart from cars is static.
GTA6 shows graphics above most open world games, filled with a lot more little details, and quite advanced physics for this type of games, like hair and water.
It's a complete package, you'll find games that do better cars (GT7) or better characters, but here it is consistent in everything it does, and that brings their world to life.

 

[BitByte]

matrix demo does look incredible, but there is no vegetation, no hair physics, NPCs look worse, everything apart from cars is static.

True but it's also just an engine demo. It's not the same as a full game and was made in a small amount of time.

GTA6 shows graphics above most open world games, filled with a lot more little details, and quite advanced physics for this type of games, like hair and water.

I feel like people are raging about the hair physics from the one shot where the lady turns. However, I do not believe that to be representative of the general hair physics one should expect. Even if that were the case, we've already seen it done in a sports games. Fifa of all games has interesting hair physics. Mute the volume of the video below.

It's a complete package, you'll find games that do better cars (GT7) or better characters, but here it is consistent in everything it does, and that brings their world to life.

I think again, that's just production quality which exists because of Rockstar's attention to detail. That and the fact that they're allowed to burn hundreds of millions of dollars and 12 years to develop the game. Something no other studio has the privilege of doing.

 

[Remij]

Yea I do. I think if I reflect on the best looking moments in linear ps4/xboxone games, it's just that done being done at an open world scale. It's great that it's being done but I'm not wowed. I've watched the trailer over 10 times and yea, I dunno.

Ugh. So what were you realistically expecting? You mentioned UE5's tech demo... but how in the world could anyone say that looks more next gen than what they're seeing in GTA6? I'm curious. In the UE5 tech demo there's no next gen looking water. No next gen foliage. No next gen physics. What's next gen about it? It does a couple things really well and sucks at everything else... It's a static ass city with repeated objects everywhere. The metahuman character is ok I guess... but what about variety? How many repeat characters do you see in the GTA6 footage? The density of all the entities on the screen at one time at that quality level. What about all the different effects and physics? I mean jesus.. it's on a complete other level.. as it should be since one is a game and one isn't. If the team that made the Matrix demo tried to add everything else from GTA6 into it.. the quality of everything would drop.. massively.

It's all the little details added on top of that "old generation" which makes it more believable and next level. It's the density.. It's more cars on the roads with more physics... It's more animations with smoother blending... it's higher quality rendering in the distance. It's taking all the things which immediately signal to you that something is a game, and slowly removing them... like pop-in, like lighting issues..

You're looking for improvements that just don't come any more because the actual improvements they need to focus on and make things believable take huge amounts of processing resources now. Lighting and physics require exponential amounts of resources for things people would argue are minor visual upgrades... and yet when you get used to them, you'll realize how antiquated and wrong games looked before.

GTA6 is next gen in almost every respect...regardless of genre. Then you take into account the genre it's in... and it's massively far above anyone else. It's not just technical... the game has a next gen budget, and requires it. Most companies cannot afford to make a game like this.. and it shows.

 

[Karamazov]

True but it's also just an engine demo. It's not the same as a full game and was made in a small amount of time.

I feel like people are raging about the hair physics from the one shot where the lady turns. However, I do not believe that to be representative of the general hair physics one should expect. Even if that were the case, we've already seen it done in a sports games. Fifa of all games has interesting hair physics. Mute the volume of the video below.

I think again, that's just production quality which exists because of Rockstar's attention to detail. That and the fact that they're allowed to burn hundreds of millions of dollars and 12 years to develop the game. Something no other studio has the privilege of doing.

you did not read what i said i see.
You can find instance in games with better results, but GTA aim to put a lot of great tech and features at the same time in their games.
FIfa does not handle an openworld with lots of things going on. So you should compare GTA6 to other openworld games instead.
you can't put all the details you want even with infinite budget, at you still have finite hardware to work with.

 

[BitByte]

Ugh. So what were you realistically expecting? You mentioned UE5's tech demo... but how in the world could anyone say that looks more next gen than what they're seeing in GTA6? I'm curious. In the UE5 tech demo there's no next gen looking water. No next gen foliage. No next gen physics. What's next gen about it? It does a couple things really well and sucks at everything else... It's a static ass city with repeated objects everywhere. The metahuman character is ok I guess... but what about variety? How many repeat characters do you see in the GTA6 footage? The density of all the entities on the screen at one time at that quality level.

I mean, it's a demo made in a short amount of time to show off engine features. What is so impressive about it is that despite that, it shows geometric complexity, cohesion in lighting, etc that is superior to most games. It shows the potential of what one could accomplish if a game was built using the tech. I'm not the biggest UE5 fan and that's well known around these parts but, nanite and lumen to me are much more impressive than the alternatives used in the GTA trailer.

What about all the different effects and physics? I mean jesus.. it's on a complete other level.. as it should be since one is a game and one isn't. If the team that made the Matrix demo tried to add everything else from GTA6 into it.. the quality of everything would drop.. massively.

UE5 simulates physics and which physics are you referring to? I didn't see any interesting physics in the trailer that stood out. I think maybe their water simulation but, different teams will choose how they handle that. As to your claim that the quality would drop massively if they added everything in, that's actually juxtaposed to nanite. The whole point of Nanite is to counteract that so I'm not sure....

It's all the little details added on top of that "old generation" which makes it more believable and next level. It's the density.. It's more cars on the roads with more physics... It's more animations with smoother blending... it's higher quality rendering in the distance. It's taking all the things which immediately signal to you that something is a game, and slowly removing them... like pop-in, like lighting issues..

That's production quality which is something I never argued. Rockstar are best in class at keeping their worlds cohesive. As to claims about pop-in, I'll wait till the game releases to comment on that.

 

[see colon]

You're out of your mind to think that looks cross-gen. It's hard for most games to do any ONE of those things that trailer does at that level... let alone all of them with a city simulation on top of it. This game looks like it costs hundreds of millions more $$$ than other studios can afford.

The pixels may not be the cleanest pixels ever rendered... but the production quality is off the charts. There's a reason why it takes 10 years to make these games.

The SSR looks pretty cross gen. What I find most striking about the trailer is the lack of upscaling artifacts. I think those have become the defining visual element of this generation. Also, this trailer is a mishmash of instagram filtered quick cuts and what look to be cinematics. It's really hard to glean anything about how the game will look during gameplay from it. Also, 30fps.

 

[BitByte]

you did not read what i said i see.
You can find instance in games with better results, but GTA aim to put a lot of great tech and features at the same time in their games.
FIfa does not handle an openworld with lots of things going on. So you should compare GTA6 to other openworld games instead.
you can't put all the details you want even with infinite budget, at you still have finite hardware to work with.

You also did not read what I wrote. Rockstar will have worked on this game for 12 years by the time it releases. No one else gets that much time to work on 1 game. So is it surprising that they have a lot of little details in the game? Other developers have anywhere from 9 months(sports game devs) to like 6 years before the publisher forces it out.

 

[BitByte]

The SSR looks pretty cross gen. What I find most striking about the trailer is the lack of upscaling artifacts. I think those have become the defining visual element of this generation. Also, this trailer is a mishmash of instagram filtered quick cuts and what look to be cinematics. It's really hard to glean anything about how the game will look during gameplay from it. Also, 30fps.

I thought I saw FSR in the hair. At least when I watched it on a large tv at 4k, when the blonde lady turns, the hair is quite aliased and looked kind of like fsr hair. I could be wrong though. It could just be low res.

 

[Karamazov]

You also did not read what I wrote. Rockstar will have worked on this game for 12 years by the time it releases. No one else gets that much time to work on 1 game. So is it surprising that they have a lot of little details in the game? Other developers have anywhere from 9 months(sports game devs) to like 6 years before the publisher forces it out.

it's an achievement yes to have so many little details while getting gorgeous graphics and nice physics in the same package, on fixed consoles hardware.
If you can't see it...then it's up to your impossibly high standards.

 

[see colon]

I thought I saw FSR in the hair. At least when I watched it on a large tv at 4k, when the lady turns, the hair is quite aliased and looked kind of like fsr hair. I could be wrong though. It could just be low res.

Maybe. It just didn't stand out everywhere like it usually does.

 

[BitByte]

it's an achievement yes to have so many little details while getting gorgeous graphics and nice physics in the same package, on fixed consoles hardware.
If you can't see it...then it's up to your impossibly high standards.

I don't think my standards are impossibly high. If you work on a game for 12 years, the minimum I expect is that your game is bigger, more fleshed out and more cohesive than other games. You worked on the game for significantly more time that others so you should produce higher quality. Like I said earlier, its something that only Rockstar have the privilege to do. They've of course earned that privilege but, they're only competing against themselves.