Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2023] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

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Thanks to the EA Play $1 promo, finished Dead Space Remake on the PS5, and about halfway through it on the PC too. Was surprised how much they changed, nearly all for the better. Far better writing, great switch ups of previously tedious sections from the original, the mechanic of rerouting power to decide how you want to tackle areas, the way you find weapons, sidequests, the new weapon effects, etc - just so many really smart decisions to modernize a classic title and not lose anything in the process. Very impressed.

But good gravy, what an absolute technical mess of a game. One of my favourite games so I was really bummed to hear how the PC version turned out, and after playing it, while the game was even better than I expected, if anything the technical critique was milder than the reality. High-end PC is still very likely the best experience, but there probably is no platform though where it really excels - at least until we're in Zen6 territory. On the PS5 in performance mode, it looks quite blurry as expected, but that really wouldn't be an issue if it could maintain 60fps - but it definitely can't. You have the traversal stutters yes, but there seems to be a lot of GPU-related bottlenecks too, especially later in the game. When you're firing off flamethrower effects and gravity wells it can really crawl, there are plenty of rooms with nothing happening when you're clearly in the 50's, but intense moments can drop that down further - and those are often.

The PC, at least on my 12400f, manifests a little differently, but probably for the worst. You can obviously just adjust your resolution/DLSS settings to not be GPU limited nearly as much, so combat encounters can play out far more smoothly on my 3060 with DLSS quality/balanced with 1440p output res. But holy shit, those traversal stutters. Stutters when you approach a door. Stutters for a moment after. Random stutters for missed shader compiles. Stutters where there are not actual framedrops, but just the animation halts (the PS5 get these too). Also these clusters of stutters (and that's really the problem - we're not talking about periodic 1 fps drops, we're talking about 4-6 stutters in a short span which are each 5-10fps drops) can occasionally make the engine go haywire, where my GPU will top out at 80% in a room and be stuck in the 50's, and will only get 'unstuck' by going into another room, triggering another stutter that somehow fixes it and returns GPU utilization to normal. You're constantly revisiting sections and walking through doors in this game, so Alex's comment of "A stutter every few meters" really wasn't an exaggeration. There are even some DLSS oddities (even with LOD bias fixed), and some indications that some post process effects are being reconstructed where they shouldn't be, albeit relatively minor in the scope of things.

At the very least from what I hear, high-end CPU's can minimize this to an extent. But not even a PS5 Pro or a Zen5 will probably get rid of these in their entirety. Can honestly say I've never played a game, and I'm including the worst shader stuttering games in existence, that compared to the constant judders in this game. Such a shame because it's so beautifully architected in terms of game design.
 
That's not TAA in The Last of Us, that's mip/LOD setting which isn't set correctly versus where it is with DLSS. Considering Iron Galaxy, a notoriously mediocre studio, was in charge of the PC port it's not surprising the settings aren't right.
So the TAA image he provided differs from what the PS5 outputs?
 
Thanks to the EA Play $1 promo, finished Dead Space Remake on the PS5, and about halfway through it on the PC too. Was surprised how much they changed, nearly all for the better. Far better writing, great switch ups of previously tedious sections from the original, the mechanic of rerouting power to decide how you want to tackle areas, the way you find weapons, sidequests, the new weapon effects, etc - just so many really smart decisions to modernize a classic title and not lose anything in the process. Very impressed.

But good gravy, what an absolute technical mess of a game. One of my favourite games so I was really bummed to hear how the PC version turned out, and after playing it, while the game was even better than I expected, if anything the technical critique was milder than the reality. High-end PC is still very likely the best experience, but there probably is no platform though where it really excels - at least until we're in Zen6 territory. On the PS5 in performance mode, it looks quite blurry as expected, but that really wouldn't be an issue if it could maintain 60fps - but it definitely can't. You have the traversal stutters yes, but there seems to be a lot of GPU-related bottlenecks too, especially later in the game. When you're firing off flamethrower effects and gravity wells it can really crawl, there are plenty of rooms with nothing happening when you're clearly in the 50's, but intense moments can drop that down further - and those are often.

The PC, at least on my 12400f, manifests a little differently, but probably for the worst. You can obviously just adjust your resolution/DLSS settings to not be GPU limited nearly as much, so combat encounters can play out far more smoothly on my 3060 with DLSS quality/balanced with 1440p output res. But holy shit, those traversal stutters. Stutters when you approach a door. Stutters for a moment after. Random stutters for missed shader compiles. Stutters where there are not actual framedrops, but just the animation halts (the PS5 get these too). Also these clusters of stutters (and that's really the problem - we're not talking about periodic 1 fps drops, we're talking about 4-6 stutters in a short span which are each 5-10fps drops) can occasionally make the engine go haywire, where my GPU will top out at 80% in a room and be stuck in the 50's, and will only get 'unstuck' by going into another room, triggering another stutter that somehow fixes it and returns GPU utilization to normal. You're constantly revisiting sections and walking through doors in this game, so Alex's comment of "A stutter every few meters" really wasn't an exaggeration. There are even some DLSS oddities (even with LOD bias fixed), and some indications that some post process effects are being reconstructed where they shouldn't be, albeit relatively minor in the scope of things.

At the very least from what I hear, high-end CPU's can minimize this to an extent. But not even a PS5 Pro or a Zen5 will probably get rid of these in their entirety. Can honestly say I've never played a game, and I'm including the worst shader stuttering games in existence, that compared to the constant judders in this game. Such a shame because it's so beautifully architected in terms of game design.
PC version is a mess. And I'm honestly pissed that Motive have left it in the state that it's in. And quite honestly, I never pass an opportunity to respectfully tell them as much.

I will not be buying any Dead Space 2 Remake, or other Motive game, until well after it's released and I've confirmed that certain issues don't exist.
 
People should cool off on chipsncheese a bit.…

I remember commenting on this when it first came out that a lot of the reaction is drawing the wrong conclusion (drawing way too much) from the slice of data presented.

I don't think this is an issue with the writer(? analyst? not sure what you'd call them) per say but more so a trap that people sometimes fall into when they associate things like technical jargon and wordiness with authority/intelligence/knowledge on a subject matter, while associating simplicity and brevity with the opposite.

Not looking for this to drag on and go off the rails but often the data of the content isn't the issue (and is great) but the interpretations can be questionable (not just from the author, but the public) and just need more scrutiny and critique.

With that the above in mind I do have to say we also need more data here as well, which likely can wait until the patch comes out of beta. I'd like to see more depth comparing more GPU/archs (eg. not just Ada) including in more scenarios. For all we know the Capframex data here is just a snapshot that isn't telling the whole picture as well.

What's also going to be interesting is how much coverage and re-examination this gets, or did the all important first impressions pay off (or not depending on perspective). I haven't seen much traction or interest in this compared to the initial foray into performance comparisons. For example I tried searching but there doesn't seem to be major discussion on any sub-reddits on this. Nor do we have other media re-examining this yet.
 
I've been thinking about the PS5 so far and Sony's upcoming PS5 Pro, which is all but confirmed.. and I can't help but think they've been doing themselves a disservice in the way they've chosen to tackle this generation thus far. I know that with the PS5, and the extended cross gen period there was a big push for "performance modes" targeting 60fps or higher. There's been a lot of remasters and remakes targeting 60fps, and that's all fine and good in itself.. but I honestly think that in the case of Sony in particular.. they've made some wrong decisions.

While it's fine and understandable in certain game types and 3rd party games that they would want to target 60fps.. I think Sony's own in house powerhouse studios should have opted to push graphical fidelity higher overall, focused on 30fps only, with 30fps raster, and 30fps RT modes only.. and cranked visuals and effects up as high as they could.

I mean think about it... Sony clearly had the goal of releasing a mid gen upgrade with the "PS5 Pro"... Why not have your teams target the greatest visual fidelity at 30fps on PS5, and then add 60fps/120fps modes with improved visuals/resolution for PS5 Pro? Let's be honest... nobody.. and I repeat NOBODY would give Sony shit for putting out 30fps games, if the visuals truly felt like leaps above what came before. I feel like by doing it as they have... the actual benefit and improvement from going to the PS5 Pro is going to feel greatly diminished. Whereas if you had a 30fps PS5 game, and then upgraded to the Pro and got 60fps+ plus better visuals and image quality.. you'd feel like it was much more impactful and worthwhile.

Yes, some PS5/XSX games are already woefully low resolution in "performance" modes, and a Pro console will undoubtedly bring that up a lot... but I'm mostly referring to Sony's own first party here. These are the teams noted for their prowess in visuals and presentation. 30fps honestly suits their games just fine as far as playability is concerned.. they're not twitch shooters or anything.

I think that was a misstep from them. People are feeling like this current generation is JUST getting started.. and next year there's already a Pro console rumored to be dropping... I think that due to a multitude of reasons, people's expectations were raised with cross gen games being more performant.. and I honestly think they (Sony) would have been better served to focus on visual quality and keep the expectations of their games around the 30/40fps mark and not 60+ performance modes.

I'm sure most will disagree with me..but that's kinda how I feel. Especially as a PC gamer getting their games a bit later. I want them to just focus on visual quality and solid 30fps locked presentation.. and let the improvements from there come from better hardware (mid gen refreshes and higher end PCs). Thanks for listening to my rant :p
 
I'm still wondering if the Pro is such a great idea.

I also find it comical that some people critical of MS having two performance profiles have no problem with Sony having two now. What happened to Sony's big talk "we believe in generations" and then they ship a couple next gen games and theyre back to cross gen now going the other way.
 
Let's be honest... nobody.. and I repeat NOBODY would give Sony shit for putting out 30fps games, if the visuals truly felt like leaps above what came before.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Some people were already giving Sony shit for not having 60 FPS modes for their exclusives on PS4. I'd imagine there'd be even more of them for PS5 now that more people have gotten used to how much 60 FPS improves gameplay and visual fidelity (motion resolution and fluidness as well as image stability for games using any form of temporal reconstruction/upscaling) over 30 FPS visuals.

Sure, 30 FPS will certainly give better screenshots, but most of the people I know will no longer play any game on PS5 at 30 FPS. It just isn't worth it for them. I'm pretty sure they'd be quite unhappy if suddenly the were stuck with 30 FPS on their PS5.

Regards,
SB
 
I wouldn't necessarily say that. Some people were already giving Sony shit for not having 60 FPS modes for their exclusives on PS4. I'd imagine there'd be even more of them for PS5 now that more people have gotten used to how much 60 FPS improves gameplay and visual fidelity (motion resolution and fluidness as well as image stability for games using any form of temporal reconstruction/upscaling) over 30 FPS visuals.

Sure, 30 FPS will certainly give better screenshots, but most of the people I know will no longer play any game on PS5 at 30 FPS. It just isn't worth it for them. I'm pretty sure they'd be quite unhappy if suddenly the were stuck with 30 FPS on their PS5.

Regards,
SB
This is exactly why I say they went wrong. Nobody was complaining that games like TLOU2 were 30fps on PS4. You probably had people who maybe said that about the PS4 Pro... in which they would rightly have higher expectations.. Again, it comes down to the visual quality and whether they "understand" why it's 30fps. The people you speak about will no longer play any game on PS5 at 30fps... because they've been conditioned to think that they should expect it, from these cross gen games. And let's be honest... a lot of games can facilitate 60fps performance modes, because the cost of developing games with truly next level production values is out of reach for most of them.

That's why I say Sony, with their own games, messed up in providing 60fps modes... because as long as they target that on the original base hardware.. there's never going to be the visual jump from this generation that people were truly expecting... whether they'll admit that or not. They should have kept expectations for their high production games at 30fps, then they wouldn't have been "suddenly stuck with 30fps for their PS5"... 40fps could have been the "compromise" mode for those who wanted a bit smoother of an experience and better responsiveness.
 
I'm still wondering if the Pro is such a great idea.

I also find it comical that some people critical of MS having two performance profiles have no problem with Sony having two now. What happened to Sony's big talk "we believe in generations" and then they ship a couple next gen games and theyre back to cross gen now going the other way.

The biggest problem with the Series S is not that it just has a different 'performance profile' - the ram limitation makes porting aspects of it far more difficult than simply lowering resolution as if it was just a Series X with a weaker GPU, that 12Gb really complicates things at times. As a result you're not just losing resolution in many cases - you're losing RT and in for some games, performance modes as well.

Not really comparable to a more powerful variant potentially releasing next year. Only becomes an issue is if devs start targeting the Pro and make little effort to optimize standard PS5 ports, but considering the installed base by the time the Pro arrives I think that's highly unlikely (especially if the Pro starts at $600 or more). Odds are the performance gap between the PS5 Pro and the PS5 will be a lot narrower than the X and Series S.

Multiple models are fine, I just think the S sacrifices a little bit too much, albeit I get with the price of silicon at the time they probably didn't have much wiggle room to reach that price point (hell Spencer gave the indication they were still losing money on it to boot!).
 
I'm still wondering if the Pro is such a great idea.

I also find it comical that some people critical of MS having two performance profiles have no problem with Sony having two now. What happened to Sony's big talk "we believe in generations" and then they ship a couple next gen games and theyre back to cross gen now going the other way.
I agree, and taking into account how high the production cost of console components is currently and predictably, I don't think there will be a mediocre hardware upgrade in this generation.

Folks, $500 after 3 years for both consoles that still barely make a profit on their hardware. In order to make a significant visual leap with this calculation, you would need at least a $1000 console... No, there won't be any midgen here, neither from Sony nor from MS.

I continue to say that excessive technological developments in the gaming industry must be restrained in order to properly exploit the opportunities provided by the current generation of consoles. It is not a solution nowadays if the hardware cannot be followed by the software. That's why there are so many buggy games and prolonged game development due to the need for over-optimization! Most people have a limit to what they're willing to pay to play, and it's not $1,000 or $2,000!
 
UE5 in its current form is not suitable for consoles, because they cannot bring 4K(ish with super resolution)/60 FPS in this engine. But... while loading the latest Halo Inifinte multiplayer maps, I was amazed at how good what I was seeing looked visually, and all at 4K/60FPS! I didn't care that there was no Ray-tracing reflection (which would reduce the possibility of resolution or framerate on the given hardware!), but I simply enjoy what I see, not yesterday, today!

Engines properly adapted to consoles, and quality assets, this is the key to quality visuals for the current generation.

This looks utterly fantastic in 4K on Xbox:


 
I agree, and taking into account how high the production cost of console components is currently and predictably, I don't think there will be a mediocre hardware upgrade in this generation.

Folks, $500 after 3 years for both consoles that still barely make a profit on their hardware. In order to make a significant visual leap with this calculation, you would need at least a $1000 console... No, there won't be any midgen here, neither from Sony nor from MS.

I continue to say that excessive technological developments in the gaming industry must be restrained in order to properly exploit the opportunities provided by the current generation of consoles. It is not a solution nowadays if the hardware cannot be followed by the software. That's why there are so many buggy games and prolonged game development due to the need for over-optimization! Most people have a limit to what they're willing to pay to play, and it's not $1,000 or $2,000!
It's like people who created the first combustion engines were asked to wait that there was no more coal. Or people now selling Electric cars were asked to wait for the end of oil on earth before releasing their new cars. :yep2:

Besides now with Sony / MS using similar technologes (PS4 -> PS5, PS4 -> PS4 Pro, XB1 -> XBS) I don't think that analogy even fits anymore. For PS5 Pro, like for PS4 Pro, developers will probably just have to flip a flag for their games to be 100% compatible with PS5 Pro anyways.
 
I wouldn't necessarily say that. Some people were already giving Sony shit for not having 60 FPS modes for their exclusives on PS4. I'd imagine there'd be even more of them for PS5 now that more people have gotten used to how much 60 FPS improves gameplay and visual fidelity (motion resolution and fluidness as well as image stability for games using any form of temporal reconstruction/upscaling) over 30 FPS visuals.

Sure, 30 FPS will certainly give better screenshots, but most of the people I know will no longer play any game on PS5 at 30 FPS. It just isn't worth it for them. I'm pretty sure they'd be quite unhappy if suddenly the were stuck with 30 FPS on their PS5.

Regards,
SB

Yeah, the cat was already out of the bag to a small extent even with the PS4 Pro/One X and their 'kinda-sorta performance modes' with unlocked options in some games. Then the horse truly bolted with backwards compatibility of the SX and PS5, either those performance modes becoming a locked 60fps, or small patches to unlock the 30fps framecaps and get the same result.

Too many people saw the advantages that 60fps brought by that point, asking them to accept only 30fps going forward would be a lost cause - especially if say, MS didn't feel the same and became the only console with performance modes. So no way, the expectation has been set. Sony would have effectively had to neuter backwards compatibility and just assume MS would feel the same for current gen titles.

The PS5 Pro is going to mean a lot 30 fps games on PS5. Want 60 fps? Get a Pro!

If there's a big CPU upgrade to Zen4, perhaps. Otherwise, I doubt it. You'll just get shittier reconstructed resolutions on the PS5.
 
GTAV has no motion vectors in the engine, so I patched hundreds of shaders to inject motion vectors, and it works.DLAA is far superior to the built-in MSAA and TXAA, it provides the most stable image yet even when driving at high speed, there's absolutely no any jaggies nor flickering.And since the game can easily run into CPU bottleneck, DLSS FG can double the FPS in most cases.The mod will also work with FiveM.
 
Guess that explains why the TXAA in that game was absolutely useless. Would be interesting to know if this is superior to the TAA in the current console versions of the game.
 
It looks...fine? But absolutely nothing like what UE5 can bring. There's nothing in terms of geometric complexity, lighting or texture work that really stands out there.

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Halo Infinite has one of the highest quality texturing. But this is only one part, look at the many thousands of crystals of the Prism map, they use quite a lot of geometry, or the forest insane detail. Not UE5? Ok, but it looks very good and 4K/60FPS, and this engine can do all this even with real time of day change.

Many people would be happy if the majority of games nowadays came with such visuals.
 
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