Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
- Thread starter BRiT
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Shouldn't be by now. This is Sony's modus operandi, no?
??? Sry, I like my xbox but "perfection" isn't quite right. Yes VRR is implemented in a good way but they did this much sooner thx to freesync support on the xbox one. But the lack of fluidity in the console os is still far away from perfection, even with the SSD. Also the DVD/Blu-ray player isn't the best and MS apps tend to crash from time to time (e.g. the dvd-/br-player, the basic rewards app, the store app, ...).
But I also don't understand Sony why they chose to safe some money on the bandwidth of the HDMI controller which also leads to such problems. They regularly seem to only implement stuff they make up themself but always ignore the existing standards. E.g. my Sony TV can use VRR, can use Dolby Vision, .... but not everything at the same time. To use VRR you must set your port to the HDMI-signal that can't handle dolby vision but 120Hz instead. Or the dolby atmos signal isn't passed through to the soundbar via earc, instead the TV only accepts older standards and doesn't pass through anything else. So I connected my xbox with the soundbar and the soundbar with the earc of the TV. So I have to give up on 120Hz (because the soundbar has only HDMI 2.0) but I can at least use dolby atmos and VRR at the same time.
For a manufacturer of a "premium products" (as they often want to see themself) they make many smaller or bigger compromises. I know especially consoles are always about compromise but some just don't make sense. Not for a 499$/€ premium product. It more or less seems while designing the console they were never thinking that 4k120 output would be an option for games on the PS5. In parts this is correct as well 4k120 is not really realistic but 1080p/120Hz is more realistic but at leas I don't want to give a 1080p/120Hz Singal to a 4k TV as this normally adds additional latency and somehow the scalers of most TVs can't even scale a 1080p signal without artifacts. So I find it really astonishing that they saved a few cents on the HDMI controller bandwidth.
davis.anthony
Veteran
I don't see the fuss around 120fps..... give it another 18 months or so and 120fps games will be a thing of the past on consoles as they'll be 1080p/60/30 with upscaling.
snc
Veteran
fuss is more about 40fps uncapped mode with vrr as miles morales and ratchet shows it can be a game changer (you basicaly get jump in this games from 4k rt 30 to 4k rt 50ish)
I also don't really see a future for 120fps games on consoles. But for 4k/120Hz ouput and that is where the saved bandwidth is problematic with all other features. E.g. a 40fps mode is what I see more often in future titles as 120Hz gets more and more standard at newer TVs.
VRR physically refreshes at a variable rate. The TV waits for the next frame to be available before refreshing itself. In the previous setup the source would wait for the TV. Now the TV waits for the source.
davis.anthony
Veteran
I don't think developers will reduce their rendering time budget in future games and offer 40fps.
I do think sooner rather than later we'll be back to a hard 30fps with the pretty pixels that go with it.
It's amazing having all these 60/120fps games but I do think it's set an unrealistic expectation of what frame rates to expect as the consoles age.
interesting thanks for the correction the.
Isn’t there a separation between polling (what I assumed means VRR) and actually refreshing the pixels Though?
Like will the TV refresh super fast at 120 and when it drops to 30hz, it suddenly leaves the pixels on for 33ms as opposed to 8ms?
I would assume it’s always turning the leds on/off every 8ms.
40fps is a good compromise. Problematic in the last few years are the screen sizes. If an object moves with 30fps you can more easily see the step-motion because of the distance objects move over the screen is so much longer. For the current screens, 40 is a good compromise to get better motion (lower distance per frame) and lag-reduction and also have only a small frame-time hit. Always use 60 is well nice, but as you already noted, the render-timewindow is a bit to small. But I guess a 40 target is really something for the next generation, because than almost all TVs should have this feature.
Yeah basically. The screen would refresh itself slower at 30fps than at 120fps. Though there’s a maximum hold time before the screen would refresh itself using the old frame. This is basically what people refer to as low framerate compensation. For most screens it’s somewhere between 20 and 40Hz.
With VRR off the 120Hz screen would always refresh every 8.3ms and display the latest frame available from the source at the time.
Okay. Interesting. So back to original question could this harm the screen over prolonged use?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
The screen? Unlikely. The control circuitry to tell the screen when to refresh? Possibly, very small possibly.
Regards,
SB
Weird, PS5 says the monitor doesn't support VRR boooooo
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Look on the bright side, at least now you have a very VERY valid reason to have to get a new TV.
Regards,
SB
That's a given. Weird though, it def has Freesync so I thought it would work with VRR?Look on the bright side, at least now you have a very VERY valid reason to have to get a new TV.
Regards,
SB
Silent_Buddha
Legend
If you had an XBS or XBO console you could try that to see if you can enable VRR on those consoles. At least it would let you know if it was the TV or the PS5.
Regards,
SB
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
Freesync isn't compatible with HDMI's VRR specification. Freesync is a bit of a weird thing, it uses the HDMI 1.2a (and above) extended protocols but requires software on both devices to work. This will extist on your monitor but not your PS5 unless Sony add it. Maybe in another 18 months?
I've recently been abusing my employers access to non-published HDMI technology information to look into HDMI's VRR protocol specification. I also had no idea there was a difference until a few days ago.
It is not about the 120fps but the TV working in 120Hz mode that allow FLC be enabled with VRR... that way you can use VRR even with framerate lower than 30fps.
In 60Hz mode the TV won't use FLC.
That way these 40fps modes that use 120Hz mode in TV can take full advantage of lower framerate with VRR.
Nobody I believe thinks these console will run games at 120fps with good graphical quality.
It is not their main purpose.
VRR similar techs is being used in monitor for over 10 years already.
If there are any issue with prolonged use it should be know.
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