Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[chris1515]

In Fortnite Nanite and Lumen are now by default in the 60fps mode on consoles. This needs to be thoroughly tested!


What high number of polygons have to do with HW-RT?

Because HW-RT Lumen on consoles is 30 fps. For 60 fps this is software lumen. I am curious to see if they use SSR or SW Lumen reflections.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Its all they got. RT, ML have rooted deep. Not it helps with entry gpu level (6600xt/3060) and a mere 2x ram increase either.
They have all the right to have their time now. I personally dont mind it, its all baseless with not really much to back it up. Let then have it, sportsmanship you know.

This "us vs them" talk is really depressing when I consider this place more professional than the average yt comments section. Baseline huge upgrades in hw every generation and support for technology matter to both console and PC players and will help both have better experiences in the end. Thats the most important thing.

I don't want to come off as some engine evangelist, but this is exciting stuff we should all be happy and excited instead of angry and forming barriers

 

[PSman1700]

This "us vs them" talk is really depressing when I consider this place more professional than the average yt comments section. Baseline huge upgrades in hw every generation and support for technology matter to both console and PC players and will help both have better experiences in the end. Thats the most important thing.

I don't want to come off as some engine evangelist, but this is exciting stuff we should all be happy and excited instead of angry and forming barriers

Your right, its the setting some think it is. Well said post, cant agree more.

 

[iroboto]

This "us vs them" talk is really depressing when I consider this place more professional than the average yt comments section. Baseline huge upgrades in hw every generation and support for technology matter to both console and PC players and will help both have better experiences in the end. Thats the most important thing.

I don't want to come off as some engine evangelist, but this is exciting stuff we should all be happy and excited instead of angry and forming barriers

The most important thing about it; is that it runs on everything. HW-RT, SW-RT, mobile etc. the features are designed to scale. The consoles aren’t as powerful so they naturally scale lower, and the PC crowd they have some features there to scale higher.

So it’s definitely a good thing imo. To be a supporter of this type of effort. There will always be a scenario however where the feature set will optimize around a particular configuration and that is likely to be the consoles as they will have the largest population of a single configuration. And those will typically be coded to get the largest bang for buck, and everyone over the power curve may not see the same amount of return with respect to how much they paid.

Nothing wrong with that, but there will always be some form of protest. Best not to let it get to you. Address misinformation though don’t let that slide.

 

[Henry swagger]

The most important thing about it; is that it runs on everything. HW-RT, SW-RT, mobile etc. the features are designed to scale. The consoles aren’t as powerful so they naturally scale lower, and the PC crowd they have some features there to scale higher.

So it’s definitely a good thing imo. To be a supporter of this type of effort. There will always be a scenario however where the feature set will optimize around a particular configuration and that is likely to be the consoles as they will have the largest population of a single configuration. And those will typically be coded to get the largest bang for buck, and everyone over the power curve may not see the same amount of return with respect to how much they paid.

Nothing wrong with that, but there will always be some form of protest. Best not to let it get to you. Address misinformation though don’t let that slide.

We got to know the resolution the consoles are running on.. i guess it will be 1080p 60fps

 

[Inuhanyou]

We got to know the resolution the consoles are running on.. i guess it will be 1080p 60fps

Makes sense. No point pushing further with TSR enabled and they want to make sure they can prove 60fps games on console are doable with all the features of their new engine.

I think all games on ue5 going forward should be 1080p on PS5 and series X as long as the TSR implementation is good

 

[chris1515]

We got to know the resolution the consoles are running on.. i guess it will be 1080p 60fps

It is 1080p 60 fps dynamic res + TSR 60%.

Makes sense. No point pushing further with TSR enabled and they want to make sure they can prove 60fps games on console are doable with all the features of their new engine.

I think all games on ue5 going forward should be 1080p on PS5 and series X as long as the TSR implementation is good

Matrix Awakens was 1080p 30 fps with TSR.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It is 1080p 60 fps dynamic res + TSR 60%.



Matrix Awakens was 1080p 30 fps with TSR.

Considering they have improved the tech since then that bodes well for games aiming at that fidelity

 

[iroboto]

We got to know the resolution the consoles are running on.. i guess it will be 1080p 60fps

It's all good. Lots of runway to the end of the generation for them. In some perspectives, this is quite promising. 60fps is very difficult to fit everything in, when the eventual push for graphics happens, and we move to 30, there should be a significant leap in graphical quality since you've given an additional 16.66ms to just work on post processing now.

 

[PSman1700]

Most people’s displays are 1080p anyway, and i guess for most framerates matter more than resolution.
Its the resolution that made its entry with the PS3. Its here to stay for awhile.

 

[iroboto]

Most people’s displays are 1080p anyway, and i guess for most framerates matter more than resolution.
Its the resolution that made its entry with the PS3. Its here to stay for awhile.

This is where upscaling algorithms come into play. Things happen over a period of time, I would not be surprised to see such a thing arrive for fortnite closer to end of gen with more optimization there is more space, ideally, for an upscaling algo.

 

[see colon]

This is where upscaling algorithms come into play. Things happen over a period of time, I would not be surprised to see such a thing arrive for fortnite closer to end of gen with more optimization there is more space, ideally, for an upscaling algo.

Fortnite already has upscaling on PC via Unreal's TAAU.

 

[mr magoo]

It is 1080p 60 fps dynamic res + TSR 60%.



Matrix Awakens was 1080p 30 fps with TSR.

from UE thread

"I don't want to misquote the details so take with a big grain of salt, but the resolution is dynamic on consoles (as it has always been). I don't know what the typical is as fortnite is a very dynamic game, but I believe the target is around 60% (so generally above 1080)."

 

[Inuhanyou]

It's all good. Lots of runway to the end of the generation for them. In some perspectives, this is quite promising. 60fps is very difficult to fit everything in, when the eventual push for graphics happens, and we move to 30, there should be a significant leap in graphical quality since you've given an additional 16.66ms to just work on post processing now.

I'm actually interested to see how many games are in development for full 60fps with nanite and lumen applied.

You'd expect there to be major compromises to hit 16 milliseconds, but at the same time nanite still allows for huge amount of flexibility with asset creation even with those limitations in place which can minimize the perception of things being constrained.

Especially with open worlds where they worked hard to eliminate the bottlenecks in unreal that would normally cause issues for open worlds specifically on that engine

I have always been interested seeing what devs can do under pressure and with strict limitations in place and this is just a continuation of that. But now the baseline hardware and technology has advanced to the point where those limitations are nowhere near as limiting towards making bigger scale games that look and play very well.

 

[mr magoo]

PS4: Dynamic 1080p/60fps with TAAU
PS4 Pro: Dynamic 1296p/60fps with TAAU
PS5: - 60Hz Mode: Dynamic 2160p/60fps with TSR + Lumen + Nanite
- 120Hz Mode: Dynamic 1440p/120fps with TAAU

- PS5 has a big difference in settings between 60Hz and 120Hz mode. The 60Hz mode enables TSR, Lumen and Nanite support.
- TSR (Temporal Super Resolution) is the new reconstruction technique created in Unreal Engine 5 to integrate with Lumen and Nanite.
- Lumen is the new UE5 lighting system that offers global illumination, reflections and shadows with results similar to Ray-Tracing at a much lower cost.
- Nanite is an advanced geometry system that allows a larger amount of polygons in assets without affecting performance.
- PS5 has better ambient occlusion, reflections, shadows and global illumination thanks to Lumen. There really is a generational difference in this section.
- PS5 60Hz draw distance is drastically superior thanks to Nanite and its integration with Lumen. With this technique 2D sprites to represent vegetation, for example, will be history.
- Lumen relies on SSR reflections to present more detail. The geometry quality of Lumen reflections are somewhat limited and some models (such as the player) will not be reflected.
- PS5 120Hz mode has no reflections (PS4 and PS4 Pro do use SSR reflections).
- PS4 performance issues. It is not able to maintain stable 60fps.
- Fortnite Chapter 4 is the step next-gen consoles needed to start showing their true potential.

Superb performance on PS5 on both 60 and 120 fps mode.

 

[iroboto]

I'm actually interested to see how many games are in development for full 60fps with nanite and lumen applied.

You'd expect there to be major compromises to hit 16 milliseconds, but at the same time nanite still allows for huge amount of flexibility with asset creation even with those limitations in place which can minimize the perception of things being constrained.

Especially with open worlds where they worked hard to eliminate the bottlenecks in unreal that would normally cause issues for open worlds specifically on that engine

I have always been interested seeing what devs can do under pressure and with strict limitations in place and this is just a continuation of that. But now the baseline hardware and technology has advanced to the point where those limitations are nowhere near as limiting towards making bigger scale games that look and play very well.

absolutely. If the rest of this generation was just titles that were 60fps, with Nanite and Lumen equivalency, and TAAU to 4K. That would be considered the graphical generation leap of quality.
That's a pretty big win. Anything more than that, seems like icing on the cake since the hardware doesn't seem well equipped to go much further than this.

 

[Inuhanyou]

absolutely. If the rest of this generation was just titles that were 60fps, with Nanite and Lumen equivalency, and TAAU to 4K. That would be considered the graphical generation leap of quality.
That's a pretty big win. Anything more than that, seems like icing on the cake since the hardware doesn't seem well equipped to go much further than this.

Well without making a game inherently built around 30fps for console...but the question is do devs think that's neccesary to make the games they want to make this time...I won't say anything about series S, but series X and ps5 seem powerful enough to make 60fps standard and make 30fps an optional choice

 

[chris1515]

Well without making a game inherently built around 30fps for console...but the question is do devs think that's neccesary to make the games they want to make this time...I won't say anything about series S, but series X and ps5 seem powerful enough to make 60fps standard and make 30fps an optional choice

We have seen two UE 5 games, Silent Hill 2 and Tekken 8. The two games run at 60 fps.

 

[iroboto]

Well without making a game inherently built around 30fps for console...but the question is do devs think that's neccesary to make the games they want to make this time...I won't say anything about series S, but series X and ps5 seem powerful enough to make 60fps standard and make 30fps an optional choice

I think we'll see 30fps games for sure. But as you say, there's enough power to do 60fps since the CPU supports it. Whereas that choice was much harder to accomplish last gen with the CPUs were weaker. The Series S can definitely keep up to 60fps, the graphical quality will drop off compared to the stronger consoles. But I think there's evidence here that it is so far sufficient for the next forseeable future. Though by 2027/28 it's going to feel really weak.

 

[Dampf]

PS4: Dynamic 1080p/60fps with TAAU
PS4 Pro: Dynamic 1296p/60fps with TAAU
PS5: - 60Hz Mode: Dynamic 2160p/60fps with TSR + Lumen + Nanite
- 120Hz Mode: Dynamic 1440p/120fps with TAAU

- PS5 has a big difference in settings between 60Hz and 120Hz mode. The 60Hz mode enables TSR, Lumen and Nanite support.
- TSR (Temporal Super Resolution) is the new reconstruction technique created in Unreal Engine 5 to integrate with Lumen and Nanite.
- Lumen is the new UE5 lighting system that offers global illumination, reflections and shadows with results similar to Ray-Tracing at a much lower cost.
- Nanite is an advanced geometry system that allows a larger amount of polygons in assets without affecting performance.
- PS5 has better ambient occlusion, reflections, shadows and global illumination thanks to Lumen. There really is a generational difference in this section.
- PS5 60Hz draw distance is drastically superior thanks to Nanite and its integration with Lumen. With this technique 2D sprites to represent vegetation, for example, will be history.
- Lumen relies on SSR reflections to present more detail. The geometry quality of Lumen reflections are somewhat limited and some models (such as the player) will not be reflected.
- PS5 120Hz mode has no reflections (PS4 and PS4 Pro do use SSR reflections).
- PS4 performance issues. It is not able to maintain stable 60fps.
- Fortnite Chapter 4 is the step next-gen consoles needed to start showing their true potential.

Superb performance on PS5 on both 60 and 120 fps mode.

Jeez. What's also super impressive is how it scales with different platforms.

BTW, I really like ElAnalistaDeBits' videos. They really help me very much on my own analysis. Just as important as DF videos for me, if not more.