There is only 6 NAND flash module.
The module they use is a standard one not a custom one.
https://www.chinaflashmarket.com/Product/Detail/NANDFlash/10841
The module are 128 GB.
Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
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There is only 6 NAND flash module.
The module they use is a standard one not a custom one.
https://www.chinaflashmarket.com/Product/Detail/NANDFlash/10841
The module are 128 GB.
This is 533 MB/s for the 12 channel configuration but again this not magic. I am sure Sony reserved some bandwidth for OS maybe we will have more information after a GDC.
If the module were custom they would have another reference. Here a SSD maker you can buy the exact same module in the link I gave.
There is no problem in me believing it's the 533MB/s module (be it down-clocked to 460MB/s or as you say, some bandwidth being reserved). The only issue that I had was the 1066MB/s figure that you mentioned. In a 12 channel configuration that would be 12,792GB/s...
There is no problem in me believing it's the 533MB/s modules (be it down-clocked to 460MB/s or as you say, some were reserved). The only issue that I had was the 1066MB/s figure that you mentioned. In a 12 channel configuration that would be 12,792GB/s...
No I was thinking like it is 6 channels. I forget PS5 is 12 channels. Currently this is impossible to find Flash NAND module under 533 MB/s. Flash NAND maker does not do 400 MB/s module anymore.
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Why are you being disingenuous regarding XSX SSD speed? MS keeps claiming GUARANTEED/MINIMUM and you keep claiming it’s typical/peak... In the new.xbox.com they even tell you it has custom firmware to speed things up for console use scenario.
Your explanation of SFS is completely wrong and completely irrelevant compared to what MS has shown and told us on multiple occasions.
My explanation of SFS is not wrong. Sampler Feedback exist since 2012 on AMD side but Sampler Feedback Streaming is new.
This is exactly what I say the new functionnality of SFS is to handle when the streaming system try to handle a texture page not in memory yet. You seems to not understand.
All virtual texturing system do the same things and try to stream only visible part of a texture by tile. For example Unreal Engine 5 is full virtual texturing, virtual geometry and virtual shadow maps.
EDIT: And I never said it is a peak, this is an average.
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can you link this evidence?
Sampler feedback is new to DX12, but I don't see any evidence the data was visible on vulkan or any specific AMD related call as far back as before XBO generation.
I have a strong feeling this is getting intertwined with PRT of DX11.1+
There is a simpler method to check this however.
Not sure if @DmitryKo DX checker will check, but Sampler Feedback has a support flag. If his tool is updated to support Sampler Feedback flag, just run it against a 7970 and see if it comes up as true. Honestly any device prior to 6000+ series will suffice. It would be curious if it supported Tier 1_0. Though it wouldn't surprise me if the older models support 0_9 if what you say is true.
Code:
[SIZE=5][B]Feature Support[/B][/SIZE]
Sampler feedback support is not required as part of a Direct3D feature level.
Support for sampler feedback is queryable from a CheckFeatureSupport capability tier.
The tiers are organized as version-numbers-with-fractions as follows:
[LIST]
[*]TIER_NOT_SUPPORTED indicates sampler feedback is not supported. Attempts at calling sampler feedback APIs represent an error.
[*]TIER_0_9 (i.e., version 0.9) indicates the following.
[LIST]
[*]Sampler feedback is supported for samplers with these texture addressing modes:
[LIST]
[*]D3D12_TEXTURE_ADDRESS_MODE_WRAP
[*]D3D12_TEXTURE_ADDRESS_MODE_CLAMP
[/LIST]
[*]The Texture2D shader resource view passed in to feedback-writing HLSL methods has these restrictions:
[LIST]
[*]The MostDetailedMip field must be 0.
[*]The MipLevels count must span the full mip count of the resource.
[*]The PlaneSlice field must be 0.
[*]The ResourceMinLODClamp field must be 0.
[/LIST]
[*]The Texture2DArray shader resource view passed in to feedback-writing HLSL methods has these restrictions:
[LIST]
[*]All the limitations as in Texture2D above, and
[*]The FirstArraySlice field must be 0.
[*]The ArraySize field must span the full array element count of the resource.
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
[*]TIER_1_0 (i.e., version 1.0) indicates sampler feedback is supported for all texture addressing modes, and feedback-writing methods are supported irrespective of the passed-in shader resource view.
[/LIST]
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quite interesting with dev comment about lightning, particles, resolution (they chose 1080 from artistic perspective
1080p for "artistic perspective" sounds like the olden 30 FPS for "cinematic flair"...yet we've been seeing those same games now running at 60 and looking (& feeling) eons better for it.
I don't mind 1080p tbh and I think it works out better for performance, especially when paired with a quality DLSS/Super Resolution-style solution but...devs should chill on the too-many-Starbucks-lattes reasoning of "artistic perspective" xD
Again GCN card out of GCN 1.0 supported tiled resource 2 and it means they are fully compliant with DirectX12 version 1.0.
https://gpuopen.com/wp-content/uplo...ogramming_Model_and_Hardware_Capabilities.pdf
Page 41 of the document tiled resource 2
All GCN 1.1 or above GPU like PS4 and Xbox One support tiles resource 2 and are Direct X 12 compliant. This does not means they are Dirext X 12 Ultimate compliant and they support Sample feedback streaming.
On GCN 1.0 card, Tiled resource 2 was feasible using a shader if it was needed.
Using hardware tild resource or software indirection any console since PS4 is able to do some virtual texturing and loading tile of texture of 64KB size(not 100% sure of the size) and if only a part of a mipmap is visible they can only load this.
Sample feedback streaming means you have the feedback from the game engine coming from the GPU to the CPU and it have some hint about the texture into RAM and can take a lower detail of texture into the RAM if needed. This can't be done on PS5 and if there is a texture miss it means texture popin because the texture will appear only when it will be available in RAM later. This is not the case on XSX and better than this the custom filter will make the transition between the two level of texture details very smooth.
The advantage of Xbox Series console is when the demanded texture is not in RAM, the custom filter will help on the case of PS5 it will be a big texture popin, it will be much smoother on Xbox Series consoles.
After the PS5 streaming system is very fast and the case when a texture is not in RAM is probably a rare case.
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Yes, but that doesn't mean it's Tier 1 Sampler Feedback compliant. That's the part I want to know.Again GCN card out of GCN 1.0 before supported tiled resource 2 and it means they are fully compliant with DirectX12.
https://gpuopen.com/wp-content/uplo...ogramming_Model_and_Hardware_Capabilities.pdf
Page 41 of the document tiled resource 2
All GCN 1.1 or above GPU like PS4 and Xbox One support tiles resource 2 and are Direct X 12 compliant. This does not means they are Dirext X 12 Ultimate compliant.
As you asked, it sounds like that the relevant data wasn't exposed on DX12 tiled resources.
I wasn't sure where it was stopped, hardware, driver or api level.
I went through the Khronos documentation for PRT, and I didn't really see anything as specific as Sampler Feedback. That's why I need to ask whether or not Sampler Feedback was actually a hardware feature that has existed in AMD hardware all this time, and was not exposed in Direct X, or someone is just mistaking what happens during PRT/Tiled Resources as being part of Sampler Feedback. I think it's clear there were some forms of partial sampler feedback back in the day, hence we see the Tier 0_9 support. But I have not been given a clear answer if AMD supported Sampler Feedback Tier 1_0 as far back as a 7970.
@chris1515 I am purposely separating Sampler Feedback from Sampler Feedback Streaming. I care only about the former and not the latter. Does a 7970 support Sampler feedback Tier 1_0 or even Tier 0_9. If not then the point claimed in twitter is false and there is misinterpretation in what Sampler Feedback does.
EG:
We have been using Tiled Resources that does exactly what _most_ people say is what Sampler Feedback is responsible for. This is the distinction I am trying to make. Please note carefully on the 'streamlines the process of writing out ideal mip levels', since it can be done all in one step.
This is different from Tiled Resources in which you can functionally do the exact same thing; but that does not mean Tiled Resources is an ideal streamlined process which sampler feedback is being purposed to do.
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But people completly misunderstantd sampler feedback. Sampler feedback means the API can marked the tiled texture.
In the case of PS5, it will not fall back to a lower resolution of the texture but it will be displayed later when the resource needed will be available in RAM and later means texture popin and it does not mean the texture will not be loaded on XSX.
And it means an involvement of the CPU too, some people like sebbbi or @Lurkmass prefer use software indirection because it doesn't involve the CPU at all.
You should be careful about assuming stuff though. Are you even sure the texture is needed in RAM on PS5? Because I'm not so sure about that at all. The way I understood it, any needed object can be streamed from disc directly into the GPU's cache (which is also why the cache scrubbers exist, a customisation on the PS5 side as far as we know). We also know the seek time latency from disc to the GPU's cache is a fraction of a frame, less than 1ms. And at 9GB/s, 150MB of data can be loaded within a single 60fps frame.
no, I would disagree that is what sampler feedback does.
It's literally written here:
https://github.com/microsoft/DirectX-Specs/blob/master/d3d/SamplerFeedback.md
What it does and how it is used are 2 completely separate things.
What it does:
Sampler Feedback is a Direct3D feature for capturing and recording texture sampling information and locations. Without sampler feedback, these details would be opaque to the developer.
The motivation for why it exists:
Sampler feedback is one feature with two distinct usage scenarios: streaming and texture-space shading.
I'm asking if Sampler Feedback the function, not how it's used, I don't care about it's performance profile relative to PS5.
I want to know, if Sampler Feedback FUNCTION is in a 7970 as claimed by that tweet.
I don't frankly care about how both consoles will go about streaming their textures. It's not a relevant point to me because SVT systems come in a whole slew of different setups for a variety of reasons. TLDR; I don't care. SFS has nothing to do with loading times. The furthest thing there is to having any relevancy in SSD speed discussions.
But if you make a statement that Sampler Feedback hardware exists in a 7970 and was made in 2012, then I do care. Because I want to know if that was just hardware that was present but not yet exploited by direct X 10 years ago. And they decided to sit on that for nearly 10 years longer to finally integrate it into DX12.
The current distinct usages for sampler feedback is to capture and record texture sampling information and location which is highly desirable for texture Streaming and texture space shading. For all we know, it may have other uses in the future, because at the end of the day, its purpose is to let you know what your GPU sampled and where, even then there are high performance impacts for performing sampling feedback, such that it is recommended to perform this function only 1% of the time for your sampling. You do not call SF every single time.
One should not be linking it to streaming textures only. And this is where I have a problem with that reddit post.
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Yes with how fast and autonomous (from GPU / GPU) the I/O on PS5 is, they don't need cheap tricks to hide soon to be resolved textures. The system can load any assets (textures, polygons, sounds etc) on Video memory virtually instantaneously while completely bypassing both CPU and GPU, this can even be done during a frame is being rendered. It can be seen in Demon's souls with the highest quality of textures among all next-gen games yet. But I am expecting further improvement from Demon's souls tech.
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