Crazy fanguy predictions come true!

I think you are underestimating lag here. In your calculations have you throught about the time it takes data to get to you and then back to the PS3?

What data are you talking about. Frames and audio get sent to the PSP, and controller input gets sent back. I already calculated the lag to send and display frames, and sending controller input back to the PS3 is no different than the lag induced today by XBOX360 wireless controllers modulo IP/UDP/frame overhead (irrelevent)


Ending it with saying that MS couldn't do the same thing, especially with PocketPCs and they should partner with Nokia tells me you have no idea about the capabilities of PocketPC handhelds

Given that I've been working since 2001 on handheld devices (including early access to every model PocketPC and WinCE device you can possibly thing of) exclusively, I think I know a damn bit more about their capabilities than you do. Not only are most PPC models inferior HW wise to the PSP, but they have zero penetration in comparison, and even brand new Axims and Ipaqs today have inferior CPU and graphics. The Intel 2700G accelerator on those PDAs can't even break 1 million triangles per second, and that's with no texturing.

you'd essentially be playing an interactive video that has to be small/fast/light enough to be quickly transmitted over the internet and to a connection that is not optimal. Keep on dreaming your crazy dream.

WiFi has more than enough bandwidth to transmit a compressed 480x272 screen. Sony already sells the LF-X1 "location free" monitor which sends even larger frames over WiFi. Without a doubt it can be done over a WiFi LAN environment in your house.

I also think it will work fine over the internet for games which aren't affected by lag so much, such as RPGs.
 
- You know about the disaster that was UMD movies? Well there’s a reason for that. Usually Sony works with companies who license their products and lay down certain ground rules (pricing, features, etc). With UMD, they had a hands-off approach and movie studios just started releasing every piece of shit movie in their vault, without special features, at highly inflated prices. Sony is not happy about this at all and is going to try to jump start the UMD movie scene again (could take up to a year) by requiring that releases meet certain guidelines. Guidelines may include an MSRP limit of $15 and that UMDs include all the special features of their DVD equivalents. It’s possible that it may be too late to save, but Sony has a lot of muscle and the PSPs multimedia features are its biggest selling points… especially considering the target consumer is a male between the ages of 21 and 40.
If that came true it would be awesome:cool:
 
...The differences were unbelievable, all due to supposedly extremely high resolution textures, which sounds like sony. Buray is beyond high definition personal consumers experiences notwithstanding, and sony doesn't just employ high res textures, but extremely high res textures...

And here I thought that textures either were high res or not. But I looked into it and its true that there are minor differences.

360 has regular high resolution textures and that just sucks compared to extremely high resolution. But the Xenos has a mode which if you turn it on you can have super high resolution and if you turn of the AA in the EDRAM you can use that bandwidth for mega high resolution textures which is even higher than extremely beyond high resolution textures that is in the PS3. Unfortunetly 360 only has DVDs' which can't fit beyond extremely beyond high resolution textures. So I guess PS3 wins again.

I would also like to be employed by Sony as a high resolution texture and I would also like to get paid to market Sony for their high resolution textures on forums.

Sorry about that rant, what I meant to say was that Bluray is sooo beyond high resolution that if you watch it, you go blind!

It's been a while since I wrote here :)
 
WiFi has more than enough bandwidth to transmit a compressed 480x272 screen. Sony already sells the LF-X1 "location free" monitor which sends even larger frames over WiFi. Without a doubt it can be done over a WiFi LAN environment in your house.

I also think it will work fine over the internet for games which aren't affected by lag so much, such as RPGs.
The problem is in interference, not bandwidth. Unless you hook up an 802.11a adapter on the PSP and the PS3 (assuming it's not wired), I'd think chances are you'd see more stuttering than smooth playback.

Unless what you're suggesting is that the PS3 only feeds game data to the PSP where the PSP does the rendering (and given your reference to "online gaming", perhaps that's it).

EDIT: And even with the 11a adapter, you'd still see stuttering. Streaming without buffering across wireless is just not optimal.
 
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This whole 'high def textures' is such a joke... the phrase already knocks me out.

Think about it, what is the bottleneck with textures in a console game? Available RAM! Just because you can store more stuff on the disc, it does not mean that you can render a scene with noticeable visual differences. To be honest, PS3 may even have a little less space for textures because of how the Xenos framebuffer works with tiling...

This really is just some fanguy talk here IMHO.
 
This whole 'high def textures' is such a joke... the phrase already knocks me out.

Think about it, what is the bottleneck with textures in a console game? Available RAM! Just because you can store more stuff on the disc, it does not mean that you can render a scene with noticeable visual differences. To be honest, PS3 may even have a little less space for textures because of how the Xenos framebuffer works with tiling...

This really is just some fanguy talk here IMHO.

The seperation here is with variation of textures. If you've not the space to store them even with the capability to render...gamers don't get to see them. His inference is valid when considering this. If you have 200 gigs of RAM in a "HAL" computer and a 1.44 floppy disk to ship content on methinks you'll not be seeing HAL pull of too many nice looking games...well not without considerable effort at least.

Point is with RAM being equal or even less for the PS3 in some way it makes no difference if the textures you're swapping in are already at a lower fidelity on the X360. It isn't that the point about RAM space isn't salient because it is but then there is also the PS3's standard HDD that can leverage with streaming from the Blu-Ray disc to make the RAM space a good bit more amenable to the task.

Now I'm sure there is a little fandom in the words spoken but there seems room for truth as well.
 
I'm sorry but your arguments don't really make sense to me. Maybe I'm not understanding you well, but I can't see how your post makes any of my points invalid.
More texture variation and "high def textures" are two very different things.

The creators of Oblivion seemed to have no problems with the DVD disk space. And don't forget that more texture variation is very work-intensive, artists have to paint those textures and that costs time and money...
 
I'm sorry but your arguments don't really make sense to me. Maybe I'm not understanding you well, but I can't see how your post makes any of my points invalid.
More texture variation and "high def textures" are two very different things.

The creators of Oblivion seemed to have no problems with the DVD disk space. And don't forget that more texture variation is very work-intensive, artists have to paint those textures and that costs time and money...

I'll try again ok :)

...and forgive me as I've not read the whole thread so I may be making a moot point but...
...also it's not so much about invalidation as I'm just talking here ok....

A limit on what gets to screen is RAM space. That I was not arguing against.

Another limit on what gets to screen is what comes from the studio. That is only a point I thought to make and I thought was the just of the fellow's comments. If higher fidelity assets are on disk then they are available to be used and hopefully make games look better IF your RAM space is amenable enough...and so the comments about the HDD etc.

Now...I was only motivated to say anything as I don't feel RAM space alone is the limiting factor as there are other things to consider. I know very well that assets cost time and money.
 
This still does not contradict my statement that "high def textures" on the PS3 (suggesting that X360 has lower resolution artwork) is just a meaningless and stupid phrase; and that there's no room for noticeable improvements within a given title's two versions.
 
Isn't Microsoft suppose to have handheld gaming on the Zune products eventually?

Maybe not the first design, which is concentrated on music. But it sounded like it would be a family of products which will incoporate gaming at some point.
 
This still does not contradict my statement that "high def textures" on the PS3 (suggesting that X360 has lower resolution artwork) is just a meaningless and stupid phrase; and that there's no room for noticeable improvements within a given title's two versions.

Fine with me.
 
Looks like it is. I'd say that this is another correct "prediction". :smile:

4 down...

This is not a "prediction". The PSP being used as a location free player has been known for months now. A lot of people were using this as the excuse of why Sony's OS is 96MB.
 
This whole 'high def textures' is such a joke... the phrase already knocks me out.

Think about it, what is the bottleneck with textures in a console game? Available RAM! Just because you can store more stuff on the disc, it does not mean that you can render a scene with noticeable visual differences. To be honest, PS3 may even have a little less space for textures because of how the Xenos framebuffer works with tiling...

The argument Laa-Yosh isn't that the PS3 can render more textures in a given pass than the XBOX-360, but that the disk can store more textures, and that future games may have so much content that they exceed DVD capacity. This means XBOX360 games will be forced to either go multi-disc or DVD-18, or they will have to ship with less game content if they want equal visual quality (because to fit more episodes and more missions, they may need to cut down on unique textures, or reduce texture resolution)

The XBOX360 has 8 times the RAM capacity of the XBOX1, and the PS3 has 16x the capacity of the PS2. As I have shown, compression doesn't change this much, thus on this basis alone, we can expect 8x to 16x the storage required for art assets compared to the previous generation game if games scale texture resolution to max out RAM. That means if a PS2 game took up 2GB of a DVD, it's going to take up 16 to 32gb if all of that data were textures. Even if you want to argue they'll only use half their RAM for textures, it's still a 4x multiplier which essentially means DVD-9 ain't big enough.

Moreover, just like Hollywood blockbuster movies, the game industry is getting bigger and bigger budgets and plowing more and more content into games. So while the actual instantaneous texture usage for a given scene may not exceeed RAM, the size of the levels and the number of episodes of the game might be far larger.

Finally, for some classes of games, like driving/flying sims, and RPGs, which feature huge draw distances and levels, but very predictable movement velocity, a streaming approach can allow you to exceed RAM usage using an LOD system, in that, one will have more textures than can fit in RAM (on disc) at highest LOD levels, but one doesn't have to load all of the LOD levels for every visible texture. And, making this work good is going to require either lots of HD space, or data duplication on optical media to reduce latency.

No matter how you slice it, the PS3 has an advantage of storage for game designers, and history has proven that when people said "you never need more than X amount of storage" and "you'll never use all of this", they have been shown to be wrong, most of the time surprisingly faster than thought.
 
The problem is in interference, not bandwidth. Unless you hook up an 802.11a adapter on the PSP and the PS3 (assuming it's not wired), I'd think chances are you'd see more stuttering than smooth playback.

First, unstable framerate isn't a deal killer(dropped frames). Otherwise, PC game market would be dead.

Secondly, 802.11a range sucks and suffers from more attentuation. 802.11b and g within your house works plenty well enough. My packet loss and frame errors within my house are practically nil at bitrates of 5mbps or less, and I've go so many contending neighbor networks visible to me. You might have more problems outdoors in a cafe, but PSP users will just find what hangouts work best for them, just like PC gamers today have to search out the best low-ping non-laggy multiplayer servers.

I never asserted it would work perfect everywhere. But if it works on average, it's a huge win.


EDIT: And even with the 11a adapter, you'd still see stuttering. Streaming without buffering across wireless is just not optimal.

Optimal no, workable, yes. I've more than one journal paper demonstrating non-buffered streaming transmissions even at half-mile distances of over 2mbps effective throughput using forward error correction.
 
I'm with Sis on this one. Even though it may be mathematically possible for people to play interactive games across the Internet to a home server, I reckon the frequent lag will kill the fun.

The Virtual PS3 feature may be more appropriate for:
* Content with low interactivity. e.g., Video streaming (thanks to H.264), photo viewing, web browsing or even remote desktop access
* Content that can be cached locally (at the PSP) like a Flash game.

I doubt a "real" video game can be served across the WAN without custom game code on both PS3 and PSP. In which case, it's probably not a generic "Virtual PS3" application. :(
 
I'd like to see a paper of congestion vs throughput with FEC. First, inside your house, it will be far less of an issue. Secondly, 480x272 with jpeg frame compression at 20:1 yields a required sustained throughput of ~500Kbps, which means you have anywhere from 500k to 4.5mbps of FEC available. I think some crow eating will be in order.
 
As I posted about it several times before G-cluster is already in service in Japan. You can try it out at this page
http://www.clubit-gc.net/portal/free/free.html
Open it with Internet Explorer and you see 2 small greenish boxes in the upper right. The left box is low-res, and the right box is hi-res. It's a free demo of BioHazard 3 (Resident Evil 3) for 20 minutes via streaming. If you click one of them you are prompted to install an ActiveX control. After you install it you can play the game via G-cluster viewer. It installs no game code onto your PC, only a streaming viewer. The control for the game is detailed in this page
http://www.clubit-gc.net/portal/manual/capcombio3jp_m.html
Enter is the key for OK, X + C is attack, V is for movie skip, dash by arrow + V etc. It's pretty responsive and I can play the game at around 10-20fps for the low-res version.

The non-free service for Capcom games contains not only static games but also action games including shooters. 1943, Onimusha 3, Ghouls 'n' Ghosts etc.
http://www.clubit-gc.net/portal/list/capcom.html
 
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he almost nows as much as I do haha..

i know from an insider that Killzone looked like crap a month half before E3 .

Which E3 are you refering to? Everybody knows the E3 05 trailer was strickly CGI, made by the ArtFX studio in scotland.
 
The argument Laa-Yosh isn't that the PS3 can render more textures in a given pass than the XBOX-360, but that the disk can store more textures, and that future games may have so much content that they exceed DVD capacity.

That is a different argument.

The original poster, whoever he is, said that PS3 has "high def textures", using higher resolution than on the X360. Which is still bollocks.
 
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