Is Mark Cerny an Engineer? *spawn

[I'mDudditz!]

Actually, he foresees all game memory to be utilized for the next 1 second of gameplay. It will be a real tech milestone.

Interesting to see DF crew (minus Alex of course) touch on this topic and voice their opinions on Mark Cerny's claims of the PS5 SSD and i/o potential and influence on what can be rendered onto the screen.

Richard says "Mark Cerny is an engineer, he doesn't do hype". Very well said. I know many here took Cerny's words as hyperbole and maybe they will rethink now that DF has voiced their opinion. We have seen PS5 games use the tech just as Cerny described (Ratchet, Demon Souls, Lumen in the Land of Nanite PS5 demo). It's a shame that Alex wasn't there it would be nice for him offer support to his stance of Cerny being hyperbolic when there's little (nothing) to date resembling proof in contrast to Cerny's claims.

 

[Below2D]

I'm almost certain that Mark Cerny is not an engineer.

 

[davis.anthony]

I'm almost certain that Mark Cerny is not an engineer.

He's not, guy doesn't have a degree in anything from what Google is saying.

But streaming game data as you turn is nothing but a pipe dream in the real world anyway as it's not practical.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

I'm almost certain that Mark Cerny is not an engineer.

Semantics? Or have we now moved to questioning Cerny's credentials? Mark Cerny is a technical guy, not a marketer. He's lead systems architect of the PS5 hardware and the proprietary APIs unique to the system. That is what Rich is getting at.

As pointed out, XSX is at a deficit nearly everywhere else, so the fact that it continues to put up equal or better resolution at times, is probably indicative of the compute difference putting in the work there to blanket it out. Compute most certainly matters, and if it didn't matter, people wouldn't be discussing the importance of a mid-gen refresh model having 2x more compute. But as a marketing topic, its clear that compute alone isn't the only metric that matters, we just assume the rest of the pipeline is sufficient in size to support that size of compute, which has been a decent barometer for some time now.

Which people? Randoms on twitter who know little to nothing about hardware and game development?

As others have already noted, the SSD itself is absolutely the most important component of the PS5's IO system. It is that which is primarily responsible for the massive decrease in latency the new consoles have brought over the previous generation. Epic have talked at length about how the use of an SSD with it's associated low latency (vs HDD) is what makes Nanite possible.

You all should write a letter to Cerny to inform him just how wrong he is

 

[cwjs]

He's not, guy doesn't have a degree in anything from what Google is saying.

I'm almost certain that Mark Cerny is not an engineer.

Come on guys it's easily verifiable public information. He worked as a software engineer and his current title is "lead architect", a standard software engineering title. I assume he's been doing management style work rather than writing code for a long time, but I don't think that invalidates the job title.

(I am not, however, aware of anything that prevents an engineer from "doing hype".)

 

[see colon]

He's not, guy doesn't have a degree in anything from what Google is saying.

I don't think a degree is required. It's not a regulated term so anyone who builds or designs a machine is an engineer.

-edit- as to not derail this conversation even more I'm just going to edit this post. When I say "It's not a regulated term" I don't mean that you there isn't a process to be licensed or accredited as an engineer. Or that certain jobs would require you to maintain such a status. I only mean that the term itself isn't regulated in the same way that something like "Lawyer" or "Doctor" is, where someone can't claim to be one without the proper certification. Though I suppose that's different based on jurisdiction. And I only meant this in the way that Cerny was described as "an engineer" IRT PS5's development, and not the type of engineer that works on space shuttles. Though, John Carmack I believe never got a degree in anything, but is often credited as an engineer for his work at Armadillo Aerospace, and won a handful of awards with engineer/engineering in the title for both that work and his work in software. So who knows. Look here for an example.

Meet 16 of Facebook's most important engineers, working on its biggest products and guiding its future​

In 2013, he joined virtual reality startup Oculus as its chief technology officer, and the startup was then acquired by Facebook in 2014.

The 47-year-old engineer remains in that CTO role to this day, leading the engineering efforts on Oculus' efforts in virtual reality, a futuristic technology that many believe could be the next frontier for entertainment and computing.

 

[Below2D]

Come on guys it's easily verifiable public information. He worked as a software engineer and his current title is "lead architect", a standard software engineering title. I assume he's been doing management style work rather than writing code for a long time, but I don't think that invalidates the job title.

(I am not, however, aware of anything that prevents an engineer from "doing hype".)

I have googled it and there isn't one mention of him being a software engineer. It says game designer, programmer, executive, and a few others but not software or computer engineer. Lead architect also doesn't make him an engineer.

Also, as far as I'm aware, yes, engineering in the U.S. is indeed a regulated profession and requires a license.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

Welcome to the Beyond3D forum, where a tree doesn't make a sound if no one is around to hear it, and you can't be an engineer unless a piece of paper says you are.





Mark Cerny is an engineer. Period.

 

[Below2D]

Welcome to the Beyond3D forum, where a tree doesn't make a sound if no one is around to hear it, and you can't be an engineer unless a piece of paper says you are.


View attachment 9383


Mark Cerny is an engineer. Period.

Because you say so? Engineering in the US is apparently regulated at the state level and does require a license so yes, you need the license to call yourself one. Where I’m from, there is also the order of engineers and you need to be accredited by them to be one.

Furthermore, Cerny doesn’t call himself an engineer nor he is called an engineer anywhere from what I could find.

As far as I can tell, he isn’t an engineer.

 

[iroboto]

You can be an engineer without being certified to be a professional engineer.

This is OT and doesn’t belong here.

 

[Quadbitnomial]

Because you say so? Engineering in the US is apparently regulated at the state level and does require a license so yes, you need the license to call yourself one.

Furthermore, Cerny doesn’t call himself an engineer nor he is called an engineer anywhere from what I could find.

As far as I can tell, he isn’t an engineer.

That is a whole different thing. You don't need to have a college degree to be an engineer. He is a software engineer and has been the lead system architect for all Sony consoles since Ken Kutaragi retired. He led the development of PS Vita, PS4 and PS5. Lots of game developers and programmers do not have a formal college degree yet work in the industry. What is going on in this thread?

 

[Below2D]

You can be an engineer without being certified to be a professional engineer.

But then anyone can just calls themselves an engineer in that case. We're talking about engineer within a professional context.

That is a whole different thing. You don't need to have a college degree to be an engineer. He is a software engineer and has been the lead system architect for all Sony consoles since Ken Kutaragi retired. He led the development of PS Vita, PS4 and PS5. Lots of game developers and programmers do not have a formal college degree yet work in the industry.

But that's the thing; Mark Cerny isn't called an engineer by anyone. Not in his profile, nowhere. He's called a programmer, game designer, game developer, and a few other things but I've been researching and I haven't seen him called an engineer once.

However, Masayasu Ito, the lead engineer of the PS4 and PS5 is unambiguously called an engineer.

Here.

And in his Lindkn profile.

I mean, we call Cerny an engineer when he seemingly doesn't call himself one nor does anyone else.

What is going on in this thread?

Me saying Mark Cerny isn't an engineer and people claiming that apparently, anyone can be called an engineer when it's ostensibly regulated in the United States (and I know it also is where I'm from). This is no knock against Cerny but calling him an engineer is simply incorrect unless we loosely apply the term and ignore the requirements. At least that's as far as I could find.

Anyway, we can get back to the topic at hand.

 

[cwjs]

Also, as far as I'm aware, yes, engineering in the U.S. is indeed a regulated profession and requires a license.

This is incorrect. There are engineering licenses that are required for some kind of government projects (I think?) but no kind of engineering field requires a certification to work, and certainly not software.

But then anyone can just calls themselves an engineer in that case. We're talking about engineer within a professional context.

"Software engineer" and "programmer" are not actually different things in practice, it's normal to use them interchangeably.

 

[Below2D]

This is incorrect. There are engineering licenses that are required for some kind of government projects (I think?) but no kind of engineering field requires a certification to work, and certainly not software.

Wikipedia says the following; In the United States, registration or licensure of professional engineers and engineering practice is governed by the individual states. Each registration or license is valid only in the state where it is granted. Some licensed engineers maintain licenses in more than one state. Comity, also known as reciprocity, between states allows engineers who are licensed or registered in one state to obtain a license in another state without meeting the ordinary rigorous proof of qualification by testing. This is accomplished by the second state recognizing the validity of the first state's licensing or registration process.[36]

You also mentioned this;

He worked as a software engineer

And again, I haven't found that anywhere. He's worked as a programmer which most definitely isn't the same as a software engineer. Where I live, engineering is a highly regulated profession and you need to be accredited. It seems similar in the US but the governance seems to be at the state level and not as rigorous.

Masayasu Ito was the lead engineer. Cerny was the lead architect.

"Software engineer" and "programmer" are not actually different things in practice, it's normal to use them interchangeably.

Not where I'm from. They're not the same and a quick research suggests they aren't the same in the U.S. either but this might just be me being pedantic. That’d be like calling a construction worker and a civil engineer the same.

 

[Remij]

What the hell is going on in this thread?

 

[iroboto]

But then anyone can just calls themselves an engineer in that case. We're talking about engineer within a professional context.

But that's the thing; Mark Cerny isn't called an engineer by anyone. Not in his profile, nowhere. He's called a programmer, game designer, game developer, and a few other things but I've been researching and I haven't seen him called an engineer once.

However, Masayasu Ito, the lead engineer of the PS4 and PS5 is unambiguously called an engineer.

Here.

And in his Lindkn profile.

I mean, we call Cerny an engineer when he seemingly doesn't call himself one nor does anyone else.


Me saying Mark Cerny isn't an engineer and people claiming that apparently, anyone can be called an engineer when it's ostensibly regulated in the United States (and I know it also is where I'm from). This is no knock against Cerny but calling him an engineer is simply incorrect unless we loosely apply the term and ignore the requirements. At least that's as far as I could find.

Anyway, we can get back to the topic at hand.

I mean your job title could have engineer in it without you being a certified engineer.

 

[Below2D]

I haven't time to clean up this thread on the Engineering talk but will later.

Question but why would you clear it up? It was a respectful exchange and related to the DF video which is where it started.

Masayasu Ito is the engineer but I digress.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Question but why would you clear it up?

It's a discussion on a word definition and not a technical discussion for the DF Tech Thread.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You can be a qualified something-or-other, but also an unlicensed one. What would you call someone who designs and builds machines with an Engineering qualification? An engineer. What if they do exactly the same work but don't have the qualification, being self-taught? they are still engineering. What if they were about to get their degree and then a meteor destroyed civilisation and they are working to help the few remaining humans survivor? They'd be viewed as an engineer. Or if they were raised in a post-apocalyptic society and were self-taught, building an aqueduct system? Still an engineer!

Conversely, you can be academically qualified for something but so shit at it that you are'nt that thing. I've a degree in Biochemistry but I ain't no Biochemist!

Whether qualified or not, Cerny is partaking in the engineering of new consoles. His contribution to PS5 ois more on the enigeering side, requirements elicitation and architecturing, than on the commercial, marketing, aesthetic design, procurement, etc. So there's no problem listening to his explanations as coming from an engineer, a person on the engineering side, even if he violates some dictionary or cultural definitions of Engineer.

 

[Below2D]

You can be a qualified something-or-other, but also an unlicensed one. What would you call someone who designs and builds machines with an Engineering qualification? An engineer. What if they do exactly the same work but don't have the qualification, being self-taught? they are still engineering. What if they were about to get their degree and then a meteor destroyed civilisation and they are working to help the few remaining humans survivor? They'd be viewed as an engineer. Or if they were raised in a post-apocalyptic society and were self-taught, building an aqueduct system? Still an engineer!

Conversely, you can be academically qualified for something but so shit at it that you are'nt that thing. I've a degree in Biochemistry but I ain't no Biochemist!

Whether qualified or not, Cerny is partaking in the engineering of new consoles. His contribution to PS5 ois more on the enigeering side, requirements elicitation and architecturing, than on the commercial, marketing, aesthetic design, procurement, etc. So there's no problem listening to his explanations as coming from an engineer, a person on the engineering side, even if he violates some dictionary or cultural definitions of Engineer.

That'd be like calling Steve Jobs an engineer because he designed the iPhone. Mark Cerny has a plan and design in mind and then hands it to his engineers who have the chops to do the engineering part. My point is that he's never been called an engineer anywhere. He's called the lead architect, aka, the guy who has the grand plan in mind. The actual lead engineer is (was) his now-retired colleague Masayasu Ito. That's why I think calling Mark Cerny an engineer is a misnomer and until this forum, I had never seen him being called one.

It could just be me being pedantic as I said before because here, we have an order of engineers and you need to be accredited to be one. Another poster also said that programmer and software engineer are interchangeable titles which as far as I'm aware is incorrect. Once again, here (and almost everywhere else, really), there is a clear distinction.

This is no knock on Cerny at all or trying to diminish his role and credibility. It's simply that I don't believe that he's an engineer nor would even call himself one. He never has after all.

Anyone else feel free to chime in. I said what I had to say.