CONFIRMED: PS3 to use "Nvidia-based Graphics processor&

[Nite_Hawk]

recently point to IBM moving away from the PC business (though not completely dropping it).

And don't forget the Apple IBM merger rumors from yesterday ... yeah, I'm still hoping for an OS X based Cell OS.

Fredi

I doubt it actually. IBM has already spent a lot of money on moving things to linux. Even if there was a merger, I doubt we'd see OSX as the Cell workstation OS. Perhaps apple/IBM would end up running OSX ontop of some kind of Cell system for future apple systems, but with how much IBM and Sony have been talking about linux over the last couple of years, I think it's probably going to be their primary choice.

Nite_Hawk

 

[Panajev2001a]

And that Cell isn't the be all and end all of all types of processing...

And what happens to these comments if it turns out the IC is, say, Cell-based (eg. >4GHz S|APU front-end) with more advanced versions of nVidia's Pixel Engines (ROPs) in parallel behind them mixed with eDRAM? We'd be back to where we were a year ago in thinking, just with nVidia onboard.

PS. I think that's "Dr", not "Mr" nAo

All CELL based systems have a CELL based MPU with regular APUs and not necessarily a Visualizer.

I do not think it would be a problem to have G-APU's which are backward compatible with APUs, but have custom modifications designed by nVIDIA to help with Pixel Shading (perhaps paired with nVIDIA designed special shading ALUs) and with special instructions to link with nVIDIA designed Pixel Engines, ROP's, TMU's, etc...

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Hahaha internal Sony graphic labs = Owned!!!

But its a very good move from Sony overall to equip Nvidia as PS3 Gpu, cant wait to know Gpus performance.

That's just a bit silly... It's most likely imho that they wanted to get around patent issues and be able to use IP that nvidia owns (gigapixel or other) and it made sense to bring nvidia's people on board to work with their own internal people to integrate that tech. Even with all of the problems the PS2 has, it was a pretty impressive feat for a company that had very little experience in the field compared to ATI/Nvidia who have quite a bit of talent from SGI and other graphics houses.

Nite_Hawk

 

[qwerty2000]

So now what happens to all of those visualizer patents there all thrwon out now!!!. Ps3 wont't have the visualizer as there second chip?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Given the wording of the press release and NVIDIA's reasons for not going for XB2 (would require large development for not a lot of return)

It might be better for them to have high returns: PlayStation 3 will not sell in ultra low numbers so nVIDIA should make a lot of money in royaltes.

 

[McFly]

recently point to IBM moving away from the PC business (though not completely dropping it).

And don't forget the Apple IBM merger rumors from yesterday ... yeah, I'm still hoping for an OS X based Cell OS.

Fredi

I doubt it actually. IBM has already spent a lot of money on moving things to linux. Even if there was a merger, I doubt we'd see OSX as the Cell workstation OS. Perhaps apple/IBM would end up running OSX ontop of some kind of Cell system for future apple systems, but with how much IBM and Sony have been talking about linux over the last couple of years, I think it's probably going to be their primary choice.

Nite_Hawk

The fundament of OS X is not that different, both Linux and OS X is Unix based, so all that investment would not be lost. However, a future cell based Apple PowerMac ... sorry ... CellMac would be interesting as well.

Fredi

 

[Sindre]

Wow, great news! Next gen is becoming more interesting day by day.

(Sorry about this, but: You lucky bastard LB! 8) )

 

[ultimate_end]

So now what happens to all of those visualizer patents there all thrwon out now!!!. Ps3 wont't have the visualizer as there second chip?

All we have here for the moment are theories. Several of them, it would seem. One such (albeit simple) theory is that nVidia would supply, for example, pixel shader technology. This could be used in the visualizer, in the pixel engines. Hell, nVidia could design the whole pixel engine as we don't really know for sure what was going into them anyway. So the Visualizer would stay intact.

However, a cautionary note: patents aren't blueprints, for a particular design or microchip. They are merely a comprehensive idea or set of ideas, that may never be realised as a commercial product.

Don't worry though. Not long to wait for real info!

 

[Nite_Hawk]

recently point to IBM moving away from the PC business (though not completely dropping it).

And don't forget the Apple IBM merger rumors from yesterday ... yeah, I'm still hoping for an OS X based Cell OS.

Fredi

I doubt it actually. IBM has already spent a lot of money on moving things to linux. Even if there was a merger, I doubt we'd see OSX as the Cell workstation OS. Perhaps apple/IBM would end up running OSX ontop of some kind of Cell system for future apple systems, but with how much IBM and Sony have been talking about linux over the last couple of years, I think it's probably going to be their primary choice.

Nite_Hawk

The fundament of OS X is not that different, both Linux and OS X is Unix based, so all that investment would not be lost. However, a future cell based Apple PowerMac ... sorry ... CellMac would be interesting as well.

Fredi

Well, the money is already being spent on linux, and not all of it is going to technical investments. Marketing plays a big part too. Still, just being unix based isn't going to make standardizing on OSX cheap. There is a lot of work that's already been done by IBM on the linux kernel, and I doubt they'd want to do it over again for OSX's kernel. There are certainly advantages to OSX with Aqua, though linux is starting to catch up and will surpass it in many ways when the XGL X ontop of OpenGL comes into play. With nVidia devleoping hardware for Cell this could become a reality fairly quickly.

Nite_Hawk

 

[Farid]

So, now, let's get serious...

Now we know that nVIDIA (The nomenclature fight around Nvidia's name has been kicked off by Pana =p )
is officially designing, to a certain extend, a custom GPU for the PS3...
Then TBDR or not TBDR? That is the question.

 

[one]

So now what happens to all of those visualizer patents there all thrwon out now!!!. Ps3 wont't have the visualizer as there second chip?

I don't think they are not related to PS3, but you should note that they can make multiple combination of those things as solutions meant for different cost/power requirements. Toshiba is now selling a GPU for cellphones developed by thiemselves, and will put Cell and their own Visualizer in their future products.

Now extra news bits from Japanese sources...

According to Mainichi Shimbun
http://www.mainichi-msn.co.jp/it/computing/news/20041207org00m300120000c.html
the completion of the GPU is expected in July - Sep 2005.

According to Mycom PC Web
http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/news/2004/12/07/005.html
they start the production of the new GPU in 90nm process then move into 65nm process.

 

[Jov]

nVidia with its Shader tech was converging towards more programmable features, now with STI’s Cell, nVidia can more closely realize this dream. Maybe it’s the reason nVidia approached Sony?

The result of their cooperation might likely be an nVidia Core with Cell atomic elements as if one would replace the IBM Power core in the middle to form the Visualiszer (a simplified view)???

This would keep in line with the Cell Architecture and flexibility. Also might answer a previous question regarding what Cell (and its super fast S|APU) can’t do to compare to ATi/nVidia’s future GPUs?

Maybe it’s not a question of what Cell can’t achieve from a V/GPU perspective, but what nVidia can bring to the table (Shader language, tools, etc. Keep in mind soft dev requires huge resources especially if PS3 is to make game creation easier) compared to if Sony goes alone in this department given the timeframe. The trade-off will definitely benefit Sony in terms of making the PS3 a success even with the later release for next-gen and the gain in experience of areas where they weak at (no one company will be great in all aspects). That said, I am sure we’ll see Cell related tech in future nVidia products.

To pull off the PS3 and where Cell is targeted, it’s a very ambitious goal and will take huge resources as we've all realized, thus going with experienced partners in their respective fields, like IBM and nVidia, can reduce the risk of failure.

Looking forward in catching up on this thread tomorrow...

 

[Xenus]

Now how are they going to make dev kits when the gpu isn't ready yet.

 

[ultimate_end]

Now I have a question. What about Xenon's backwards compatiblity?

I know a lot of people don't think backwards-compatibility is important, but even so, If Microsoft needs nVidia's blessing/co-operation to make Xenon backwards compatible, what are the chances that Sony suggests to nVidia otherwise?

The advantages for both nVidia and Sony are stacking up.

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Now how are they going to make dev kits when the gpu isn't ready yet.

Maybe they have software emulation to fall back to?

Nite_Hawk

 

[one]

Now I have a question. What about Xenon's backwards compatiblity?

I know a lot of people don't think backwards-compatibility is important, but even so, If Microsoft needs nVidia's blessing/co-operation to make Xenon backwards compatible, what are the chances that Sony suggests to nVidia otherwise?

The advantages for both nVidia and Sony are stacking up.

Poor nVidia kicked out of the Microsoft house went to the Sony house and knocked on the door crying 'Lemme in! I have a present for you!'

But actually, if required MS can pay nVidia a tremendous amount of money for BC, so nVidia wouldn't be that desperate, IMHO.

 

[V3]

Its nice they finally confirmed, I was waiting for it. There were too many sources for the rumor to be shove aside.

Well this is good news for PS3.

And reading all that, I think Sony and NV has just got the contract done. Well done to NV for winning the contract.

 

[hey69]

so how feasible is SLI techniques ?
you guys think they will go some sort of multicore with the GPU ?

 

[ultimate_end]

Now I have a question. What about Xenon's backwards compatiblity?

I know a lot of people don't think backwards-compatibility is important, but even so, If Microsoft needs nVidia's blessing/co-operation to make Xenon backwards compatible, what are the chances that Sony suggests to nVidia otherwise?

The advantages for both nVidia and Sony are stacking up.

Poor nVidia kicked out of the Microsoft house went to the Sony house and knocked on the door crying 'Lemme in! I have a present for you!'

But actually, if required MS can pay nVidia a tremendous amount of money for BC, so nVidia wouldn't be that desperate, IMHO.

You make an excellent point. But just how much is Microsoft willing to spend on such a thing? And what if (and I know this sounds a bit shady) Sony made it a condition of this graphics contract? would nVidia miss out on such a potentially lucrative deal?

I just thought I'd bring up some more discussion, that's all.

 

[Brimstone]

Intel CEO Craig Barret, in front of an audience demonstrates Intel's new strategy to respond to the "CELL" platform.

It's to pray.