CONFIRMED: PS3 to use "Nvidia-based Graphics processor&

[ultimate_end]

Lol. Reading that Gamesindustry.biz article again now is kinda hilarious:

"Lashing NVIDIA's technology onto the PS3 architecture would simply make no sense..." - senior source

Well, hindsight really is a wonderful thing isn't it?


Anyway, I see no reason why nVidia couldn't just supply "the tech for the pixel engines" if Sony went down that road. For Sony's sake though, I hope they get a better deal out of this than Microsoft did with the Xbox

But what surprises me the most is the talk of continuing this agreement well beyond games consoles. This whole saga may be the news to watch over the next couple of years, especially with the market potential of CELL etc. The plot thickens...

 

[Vince]

Isn't PS2 basically a bunch of texture samplers and a bunch of ROP's?

Last I checked it was those exact units which you claim are so easy to get down that everyone was complaining about. Especially in the GS and to some extent in the PSP. Yet, nobody is complaining about VU1...

I don't see the problems facing Sony based around shading or anything which is more a function of bandwith and computation. Rather, their problems have historically been dealing with the more fixed paradigm of hardwired "features" that existed in, say, the DX7 or even, to a lesser extent, the DX9 class architectures.

So you say, IMO this deal signifies the opposite. We'll have to wait and see what the exact composition of the graphics element is. At this point in time I'd say all the early patent information is not much of an indicator as to the final design of PS3.

Well, obviously I disagree concerning what this deal means, but then again you're looking at this from a PC-centric view of "Shaders" (still didn't answer my question on them) and DX/WGF, where as I'm looking at this from a 'Cell world' view -- and frankly, I don't see how your perception of a mainstream PC-esque GPU is congruent at all, or even helpful.

And concerning the specific patents I've outlined, thus far they have all beared-out. The Cell architecture information from ISSCC has mapped to the patent information 1:1 thus far. Can you name a single deviation that hasn't been positive?

I doubt the GPU will be a big departure from their next gen PC architecture if Sony didnt provide them with a huge wad of cash up front (unless all this is mostly a sugarcoated patent licensing deal).

nVidia would also get their core architecture into a wide range and number of CE products that is well beyond what ATI has achieved and what Microsoft is even hoping to get under it's aegis. I'd be very surprised if this IC was anything like the mainstream PC part of the time, unless it's the PC which adopts the architecture.

 

[Alejux]

No way! From the release, we see that they've been working at it for the last 2 years. A company just wouldn't work for 2 years and spend millions of dollars without a firm contract.

Do you believe in press releases? I don't..

So you think that NVidia would just cook up a GPU to be fully integrated with CELL chip in the period of months? Or likewise, do you think Sony would spend billions in such a project without concerning themselves with the GPU to be used? You should give these executives a little more credit then that. They're usually very cautious when it comes to spending their money.

 

[Farid]

ATI's deal with GC was $3 per Cube and $0.50 per game copy sold. I would expect similar (or less, dependant on the involvement) for this deal.

I would expect less, Nvidia are the ones who HAD to be onboard of a next gen console.

Letting ATI being in two of the consoles soon available, and therefore in people living rooms, would have been a big problem for Nvidia, and that only from an economical market POV.
Also Nvidia are clearly "co-designing" the chip, meaning they're definitely not delivering a ready-to-fab chip like ATI does.

That's why i think this deal is a lot less advantageous for Nvidia than the Xbox deal, or the ATI's GC/Xenon deals.

Still, being associated with the market leader of a such strategic video market is a big deal when it comes to Nvidia's marketing image. And of course, this deal also guarantees a ton of royalties and the prospect of gaining ground in important markets such as HDTV.

 

[loekf2]

But what surprises me the most is the talk of continuing this agreement well beyond games consoles. This whole saga may be the news to watch over the next couple of years, especially with the market potential of CELL etc. The plot thickens...

Exactly. CELL is not just about a "console". It's supposed to be the architecture used by Sony for their digital entertainment products, so a console, media hubs, LCD TVs, blueray recorders etc.

Nividia just jumped on the consumer electronics bandwagon. It was about time...

 

[nAo]

So you think that NVidia would just cook up a GPU to be fully integrated with CELL chip in the period of months? Or likewise, do you think Sony would spend billions in such a project without concerning themselves with the GPU to be used?

I'm not saying they haven't been working together since months or years I've said that AFAIK they finalized their collaboration not so long ago.

 

[London Geezer]

Nividia just jumped on the consumer electronics bandwagon. It was about time...

Did you not notice that big bulky black and green thing... called.. xbox?

 

[Readykilowatt]

in corner one MS & Ati

In corner two - Sony & Nvidia

knocked out - Nintendo

show presented by IBM

Actually, it will be more like this:

Xbox 2 (Microsoft + ATI + IBM + Samsung?) vs Revolution (Nintendo + ATI + IBM + NEC? + Matsushita? + Mosys?) vs Playstation 3 (Sony + Toshiba + IBM + Nvidia + Rambus)

Fight!!!

 

[ultimate_end]

That's why i think this deal is a lot less advantageous for Nvidia than the Xbox deal, or the ATI's GC/Xenon deals.

Now if only nVidia had been onboard with the PS2 , 75 million plus consoles shipped and counting... rapidly. Even a relatively minimalist licensing deal would have netted them some serious $$$!

The question now is, just how well will PS3 sell...?

 

[London Geezer]

And i wanted to add, why would it matter to MS (in the PC world) if Nvidia happens to be in PS3?
At the end of the day, Sony uses Microsoft in their Vaio PC line, and i don't see Microsoft making things hard to Sony just because they compete in the console market.

In theory, MS shouldn't mind Nvidia being in bed with Sony... Just like they didn't mind ATI being in the GC.

 

[Miksu]

Interesting news, to say atleast. For some reason I got this feeling that NVidia is giving up a little on the PC-market. Ati + MS-relationship feels kinda tight currently and then there is also the news about NVidia canning their future GPUs. I'm not saying NVidia stops producing GPUs for home computers but still.

I see the situation as something like:

PC Gaming + XBox2
vs.
PS3

or

Microsoft
vs.
Sony

GCube2 and Nintendo are somewhere out of this battle.

But what do I know, I don't have any real information about this

 

[Riddlewire]

PS3 - Return of the Dustbuster

 

[ultimate_end]

Nividia just jumped on the consumer electronics bandwagon. It was about time...

Did you not notice that big bulky black and green thing... called.. xbox?

When I listened to the webcast of ATI's Terry Nickerson speaking at that technology conference, where he talked about how ATi would be agressively pursuing the consumer electronics etc markets, I was thinking "where is nVidia in all of this?"
Well I guess I have my answer... in Sony's king size bed!

 

[-tkf-]

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/engli...20041207/scei.htm&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2

This announcement is what SCEI and NVIDIA clarified together, and the range of collaboration does not remain only in a next-generation game machine, but supposes that the application to the broadcloth band application and the digital-appliances product of the Sony group is also put into a view.

Kutaragi CEO of SCEI comments "Cooperation of both companies contains various software development tools, a middleware tool, etc. which make possible not only semiconductor development but a more efficient contents policy" about this announcement.

 

[London Geezer]

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/web/body?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fgame%2Fdocs%2F20041207%2Fscei.htm&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2

This announcement is what SCEI and NVIDIA clarified together, and the range of collaboration does not remain only in a next-generation game machine, but supposes that the application to the broadcloth band application and the digital-appliances product of the Sony group is also put into a view.

Kutaragi CEO of SCEI comments "Cooperation of both companies contains various software development tools, a middleware tool, etc. which make possible not only semiconductor development but a more efficient contents policy" about this announcement.

Awww how i love instant translators...

 

[wco81]

if nvidia would release gfx pc cards with technology borowed from this project, wouldn it also facilate porting from PC for example ?

So are we assuming that what Nvidia is doing is completely separate from their PC products?

They are more likely to leverage their work with Sony for the PC cards than the other way around?

 

[Nite_Hawk]

I've been mulling over a couple of things this week, and this announcement seems to only add more to the pot.

So IBM is producing a Cell workstation running linux, and sony is producing a Cell console running some custom OS. Rumors recently point to IBM moving away from the PC business (though not completely dropping it). nVidia, a company that has been suprisingly supportive of linux with high quality drivers is now developing the grapahics chip to be used in the console. Nothing is known about the graphics for the workstation. The competing OS to linux is Windows, and Sony is battling Microsoft in the living room, while IBM has in the past been fighting with Microsoft over the PC industry. Linux has almost no high quality games available for it, but has a large amount of free high quality software.

I think whoever commented that IBM is trying to redefine the X86 architecture was close to being right. I think IBM/Sony are trying to redefine the PC Industry. Sony wants to dominate the living room, and with cell they can do it. IBM is a bit harder to read with their moves toward becoming a service company, but making cell and linux the dominant workstation architecture (I don't want to call it PC architecutre, because I think the PS3 and Cell workstations fall a bit to either side of the typical PC) would certainly help facilitate it. The only thing that linux really lacks at this point is entertainment software. I think we are going to see very good nvidia graphics support under linux on Cell, and I think we are very possibly going to see PS3 games running under IBM cell workstations.

Nite_Hawk

 

[Leto]

Competition = better hardware = lower prices = everyone happy.


Oh, and 4 pages of posts in like less than half an hour... News of the century...

I was hoping this thread would turn gay, but I suppose it's too late now

 

[McFly]

recently point to IBM moving away from the PC business (though not completely dropping it).

And don't forget the Apple IBM merger rumors from yesterday ... yeah, I'm still hoping for an OS X based Cell OS.

Fredi

 

[Tysan]

Hahaha internal Sony graphic labs = Owned!!!

But its a very good move from Sony overall to equip Nvidia as PS3 Gpu, cant wait to know Gpus performance.