Chevy Volt - Electric Car

[Mariner]

Well, the Nanoptek approach sounds interesting in the hydrogen creation stakes. The technology is obviously still in its infancy but if it pans out it could be interesting. Obviously mass production cost and efficiency figures need to be right.

You're right that the hydrogen storage problem still needs to be solved though. Half a solution is no more useful than no solution at all.

 

[Sxotty]

Some people buy a small, Japanese car, others buy the biggest hummer available, or a truck. Just for personal transportation.

Now, the pick-up/Hummer/truck owner can make a long argument that those silly and small Japanese cars really don't work, as they're totally unsafe when colliding with a "real" car, and they can't carry any load. And who doesn't need to be safe and regulary able to get a truck full of fire wood?

Still, those Honda Civics and all sell pretty well.

And people will still by trucks, or vans who need them in the future.

Don't try to fight a meaningless effort to show why all electric is better. Once PHEVs take off people may or may not decide an all electric is better, or worthwhile. All of the technology for an electric will be refined by PHEVs. There is no real reason not to move ahead on them except a desire to enrich OPEC countries.

 

[_xxx_]

I think people will always decide with the wallet if the difference in overall costs becomes substantial. Meaning, if it requires no fuel and there are no huge maintenance costs involved, they'll buy it. Hell, even I'd buy it today and I absolutely love huge, loud guzzlers with 500+ hp.

 

[Arwin]

So again, where is the hydrogen? Until you've solved every one of those problems and then some, the reality is no, it's not coming.

Yep, that's why there's lots of work done on these subjects. Like this (just grabbing the random first link from Google, because I remembered having read about various solutions already in newspapers and elsewhere):

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/09/050907102549.htm

 

[_xxx_]

Arwin: how do they get rid of the nitrogen? NOx is as problematic as CO/CO2.

 

[Gubbi]

Arwin: how do they get rid of the nitrogen? NOx is as problematic as CO/CO2.

2 NH3 -> 3H2 +N2, no NOx involved.

And if there were, just catalytic convert NOx -> N2+oxygen.

Cheers

 

[Frank]

And people will still by trucks, or vans who need them in the future.

Don't try to fight a meaningless effort to show why all electric is better. Once PHEVs take off people may or may not decide an all electric is better, or worthwhile. All of the technology for an electric will be refined by PHEVs. There is no real reason not to move ahead on them except a desire to enrich OPEC countries.

Agreed.

 

[Simon F]

Arwin: how do they get rid of the nitrogen? NOx is as problematic as CO/CO2.

Why would you necessarily get an oxide of nitrogen rather than just plain N2?

Edit: I see Gubbi has already replied.


OR bypass the conversion completely or alternatively with this?

 

[_xxx_]

Not entirely on topic but related and an interesting read:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/13/science_biofuel_reports/

 

[Sxotty]

Not entirely on topic but related and an interesting read:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/13/science_biofuel_reports/

Already in RPSC being discussed.

Declines in production of feed grains due to biofuel diversion cause significant cuts in food exports. Brazil, China and India then cultivate more arable land for food crops. This is a double whammy, not only releasing carbon dioxide locked up in plants and soil in the US but also around the world. It's a strong and compelling analysis of the current US rush to ethanol. Indirectly, it's quite an indictment of it, too.

Basically they are making a bunch of assumptions that are not based on anything other than the US needs to provide food to the rest of the world. I don't see why we have that obligation when food is dirt cheap and fuel is awful pricey. It is basically giving away our money to other countries.

 

[_xxx_]

Why only US? Any country which cultivates the food crops and wants to shift towards biofuel will have to act accordingly, which will in turn increase the effect.

 

[RussSchultz]

That and the US is a very large grain exporter (particularly as foreign food aid).

The impact has already been seen in Mexico as price of masa for tortillas has skyrocketed.

 

[nelg]

Back on topic.........


What is going to replace the phrase "Hit the Gas"?

 

[_xxx_]

"Crank it up"?

 

[Mariner]

"Put the Pedal to the lightweight composite chassis".

Doesn't really have much of a ring to it, does it?

 

[Sxotty]

The biofuel thing should be in RPSC probably. Think about opportunity cost though. The economics don't make sense.

 

[Frank]

Back on topic.........


What is going to replace the phrase "Hit the Gas"?

"Fire the Turbine!"

Electric motors are near silent, but make a sound like a turbine when stressed.

 

[Pete]

I don't think that's quite true.

Chevy SUVs and trucks and Ford trucks have been having a really tough time the past 4 years or so.

I haven't followed the specifics of GM's and Ford's astonishing losses closely, but that's surely a big factor. I still see an awful lot of them on the road--if not as many Ford/GM, then Lexus/Acura/BMW. Well, it'd be more accurate to say I don't see shit when I'm behind them (nice expanse of tailgate you got there) or in front of them (blinding me with their headlights at mirror-level--newer minivans suck at this, too).

"Put the Pedal to the lightweight composite chassis".

Doesn't really have much of a ring to it, does it?

 

[DemoCoder]

Well, you seem to be advocating helicopters or VTOL planes for everyone. That people don't go for those, is that they're not used to them. Same like with Linux/OO vs Windows/MS Office.

"Yes, but mine can do something yours can't!"
"But mine does too!"

Frank, do you have kids? Try to think about the hassle of renting cars on weekends with small children, and having to keep installing car seats, toys, etc Really, this idea of everyone flocking to rentals on weekends is absurd. (yes, you can rent cars with car seats. No thank you, I prefer my own car seats.)

I'm driving the minivan to California Disney this April for my son's birthday. Why? Because taking 2 kids to the airport, checking in, going through security, boarding, flying there, hauling luggage, taking a rental shuttle to the rental lot, etc and then doing the reverse is INCREDIBLY IRRITATING when you have small kids.

In contrast, loading up my van in my own garage, driving direct to my hotel, and then disembarking is infinitely better, and it's basically a ~6hr scenic drive, with freedom to stop anytime, get food, explore, vs 3-4hrs airport/rental hassle, so only 2 hours saved, that's if the plane doesn't get stuck on the runway forcing you to feed your kids pretzels while you wait.

I'm sorry, but the idea of everyone switching to cars with a max range of 100km is just stupid, for Americans, whom live predominantly in suburban environments, spread out, and who have more children on average than Europeans, live in a country with lower population density, and prefer to take road trips with the family.

I have a friend who ditched his car when he moved to SF and uses ZipCar rentals, arguably the most convenient rental possible, as they are cars spread throughout the city, that you just walk up to, swipe your electronic key, and drive off. Guess what? He's still incredibly annoyed by the inconvenience of renting, and would prefer to own a car again.

Plugin hybrids are the way to go, and the only way you're going to get Americans off of gas. You've given absolutely ZERO reason why we should switch to pure electric vs electric hybrid/extended range (onboard ICE generator). Basically, it's a car that's electric 90% of the time with a backup emergency gas engine. Whoop-de-do. Why are you against this?

 

[WhiningKhan]

Back on topic.........


What is going to replace the phrase "Hit the Gas"?

"Ludicrous speed. NOW!"