Out today in the UK, a version of Buzz for PS2 that offers training material for the 7-11 range in schools:
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=90450
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=90450
Buzz! The Schools Quiz
- Thread starter Arwin
- Start date
Now this is cool. I wish there were more educational gaming products on the market. 5k questions doesn't doung like many, but it is better than nothing. What would be cool is a series of games that offered background material (links, audio, text, video, interactive demonstrations, etc) and then built quizes from that. You could do some really neat stuff with physics and chemistry and biology 
Passive learning through games for stuff like new languages would also be a lot of fun. I am glad someone is addressing the market and I hope this market grows.
Passive learning through games for stuff like new languages would also be a lot of fun. I am glad someone is addressing the market and I hope this market grows.Thompson doesn't like it.
http://www.ripten.com/2008/01/14/jack-thompson-buzzes-in-gamers-ears-again/
Too right.
http://www.ripten.com/2008/01/14/jack-thompson-buzzes-in-gamers-ears-again/
Too right.
This is just another Edutainment title. There's zillions of computer educational systems out there. A console offering a National Curriculum package is no worse than a PC doing the same. It's yet another brain-dead outrage from Thompson ignoring the fact that ICT based learning aids are considered an excellent addition to the education of kids. Traditional chalk on slate isn't going to cut it any more.
There are entire products dedicated to bringing gaming aspects to schools. The schools here have software that allows the teacher to enter the questions they want, the point values, and various types of answer formats. It's far far far more helpful than something like this which is likely to unfocused to be anything beyond a "neat" distraction. The program of course runs off the computer and each student has a answer pad. About the only advantage I can see with this product is the graphical splendor is high for a educational product. Otherwise it's worse in all other areas...
scooby_dooby
Legend
Well the obvious benefit you're missing is much less work is required for the Teacher themselves, which increases the likelyhood if it actually being used by about 1000 times.
It's great to have a system that allows teachers to enter their own questions, and point values etc, and that system would probably work very well for younger, computer savvy teachers, with the time to set up such a system.
But many (older) teachers are very retiscent to engage in any computer based activities, and would probably spend an inordinate amount of time trying to enter questions/point values into a software package. For them, a plug and play application like this is far more likely to get utilized.
Teachers in nearly every aspect of their daily work days use a computer. From either just entering in the attendance each hour or many of the necessary communications happen via email. Going into a simple software program and putting a question DIRECTLY from book study guides or tests is amazing simple and then the point value is simply trivial. I know some people like technology, but what you're suggesting here is more like just out right stupidity. A quick afternoon demonstration of the system for 30 minutes is more than enough to show how it works from the putting in questions to playing a quick round... Not only that but it's a one time thing for each section, year after year that teacher can go back to that saved lesson and simply pull it up and go.
While I can understand the value of the system in the article it is so far away from knew I have to really wonder the purpose at all. Why not just take a current system that is easily available and make a set of questions based on the curriculum? No extra development costs at all beyond someone typing in the questions and putting in a point value. Then it's just as easy for this fictional "old" teacher who has no clue at all what a computer is. Besides it being a bit better looking there is nothing to this system worth noting, in fact I'd called it a major waste of time from an extra money spent point of view...
scooby_dooby
Legend
I work in this industry. We work directly with creating flash-based learning applications for teachers, and in-servicing them. I've seen first hand how resistant many teachers are to technology, and even among the so-called savvy users, their knowledge is extremely limited.
Many, many teacher view the computer as something that requires MORE work for them, they don't see the added value, or the potential time savings.
You can explain the benefits all day long, but it doesn't really matter to these people. They are set in their ways, and any changes will be small ones...with much foot dragging.
You can call them stupid if you like, but if that's the case, we must have alot of stupid teachers in Alberta.
I also don't see a ton of value in a Quiz based game like this. I was mainly arguing with your assertion that a custom, teacher managed system will always be better.
Of course the quality may be higher, but it may also be lower. And also, if you consider actual usage as an important factor, a pre-made package will see much greater actual usage.
I can't believed you typed that without making any points at all. This program is based around the curriculum. Any city, state, nation could do that with a large number of preexisting programs. So why go out of your way to develop a new system? They would require the same amount of work except this one means you need a Playstation 2 that is either shuffled around the school or one for each class room. Why not leverage the computer for the teacher that is almost guaranteed to be in the room? So please tell me again the great benefit to this? How is it any better than what was already out there or easily achieved? There are none.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Point is, I'm commenting from real world experience, with actual teachers, and you're simply guessing.
Sure, given the funding. Not every school will have the resources to implement a system like this.
Well, as I just mentioned, it does not require significant funding by the local government, or educational board, which is a large benefit.
It's also universal. No worries about system compatability between various software systems on different school networks, not to mention the competency of the school's technical staff. So it's more efficient than having each district/school design their own system.
Like I said in my edit, this particular software is not particularly compelling, but I can see the potential.
At first glance it doesn't make alot of sense to use a console. But considering most schools have their computers located in a lab, and at best can get a few hours in the lab a week, having a console in the classroom does have some value in added flexibility.
And one more benefit, by using a console in the classroom, rather than software on a computer, it facilitates groupwork to a greater degree. In a classroom setting, with a TV at the front of the room, you can have 10-15 students gathered around, with groups of 4 actively taking turns using the system. In a computer lab, it's much more of a solitary experience, with at most 2 or 3 students participating together.
I would think the obvious benefit is having a "fun factor" as opposed to soulless tests takes out of obligation.
That's assuming it's still a competitive multiplayer game (haven't really read the article).
Maybe the school system I do some part time computer work at is different (thanks for guessing that I don't have a clue about teachers and computers, though!) from most but each classroom has a computer for the teacher. The computer is used for attendance, notifications, easy access to bulletins (the paper budget saved with that is actually staggering), and a massive number of other tools and jobs. That computer has a very low end projector that meets the requirements for what it is needed, which is anything the teacher wants. One such application is a system amazingly similar to this.
The software runs on the PC (Windows based, I've seen the software on a Windows 2000 machine up to Vista, which is the OS range at the school, I wouldn't be surprised if their is a Mac variant and I don't know of a single school that uses a distro of Linux), the teacher can input their own questions or they can select several premades. Each student in the classroom is given a pad that allows the student to enter their choice, it basically works like the buzzer in this Buzz! game.
So what we have here is the system leveraging everything that the school already has with the simple addition of the program and buzzer pad bundle. This Buzz! game does the same thing but requires the PS2, something the vast majority of schools do not have. While the PS2 is very cheap right now, I can't see how it plus the Buzzer! package is any cheaper overall than the above system. It also does nothing more but several things less. So where is this systems advantage at? Again, I see none. While a school might not have a computer in every room (most do, at least one for the teacher) the school would likely have some sort of laptop/projector combo already able to take the same exact spot this Buzz! game would. You must leverage what schools already have. By introducing something new beyond the software buzz pads you start going into extra areas of expense.
Similar programs offer the same competitive type of play.
The software runs on the PC (Windows based, I've seen the software on a Windows 2000 machine up to Vista, which is the OS range at the school, I wouldn't be surprised if their is a Mac variant and I don't know of a single school that uses a distro of Linux), the teacher can input their own questions or they can select several premades. Each student in the classroom is given a pad that allows the student to enter their choice, it basically works like the buzzer in this Buzz! game.
So what we have here is the system leveraging everything that the school already has with the simple addition of the program and buzzer pad bundle. This Buzz! game does the same thing but requires the PS2, something the vast majority of schools do not have. While the PS2 is very cheap right now, I can't see how it plus the Buzzer! package is any cheaper overall than the above system. It also does nothing more but several things less. So where is this systems advantage at? Again, I see none. While a school might not have a computer in every room (most do, at least one for the teacher) the school would likely have some sort of laptop/projector combo already able to take the same exact spot this Buzz! game would. You must leverage what schools already have. By introducing something new beyond the software buzz pads you start going into extra areas of expense.
Similar programs offer the same competitive type of play.
scooby_dooby
Legend
There is none, in that specific situation.
But you have to consider the many rural schools that exist, which do not have facilities like their urban counterparts. And the fact that every single school is different in configuration, capabilities and funding.
All I was saying was in some cases something like this has no benefits, but in others it does offer some meaningful advantages.
Well, when you begin referring to people as 'stupid' because they aren't very quick with computers, that doesn't strike me as someone who has a ton of experience in the field
There's plenty of smart people who are damn near useless in front of a PC (thankfully their numbers are dwindling though!)I did not refer to them as stupid people, the way you presented them was someone I would consider stupid and I stated such. Though the majority of teachers I know are not as clueless as you suggested.
The school system I work at has a total of about 1,300 students from K-12 spread across 4 distinct schools.
The school system I work at has a total of about 1,300 students from K-12 spread across 4 distinct schools.
I don't see why this has to compete with an existing system, or even replace it. If I were a teacher, I would welcome anything that'll reinforce what I'm teaching - especially if it's appealing and entertaining for the kids.
And I know exactly what scooby was talking about. My father in law is a teacher, and other than the required tasks (emails, attendance records, test results etc.), he wouldn't want to spend anymore time on a computer. I have a couple of cousins that wouldn't even look at school books outside of school - but I know they'll be more than happy to play this.
How is that a bad thing?
And I know exactly what scooby was talking about. My father in law is a teacher, and other than the required tasks (emails, attendance records, test results etc.), he wouldn't want to spend anymore time on a computer. I have a couple of cousins that wouldn't even look at school books outside of school - but I know they'll be more than happy to play this.
How is that a bad thing?
archangelmorph
Veteran
I think it's useful..
Not necessarily as a "teaching" tool per say but definitely as a "testing" tool..
During the period leading up to exams student will be working hard to test there knowledge on what they've been taught through the semester, find out how much they know/remember & try to identify & cover the areas that they don't in time for the examinations..
What better way to do this than sitting round with a group of friends during study leave period to play a couple of rounds of Buzz! & not only making the whole learning experience much less depressing for most students but also helping them test there knowledge & gain an understanding of the scope & context of topics which will be covered in the examinations..?
I think it's a brilliant idea & I also think it would be something even more suited to college & degree level students too provided the software is robust & flexible enough to provide quick & simple modification to the question database as & when the curriculum gets updated (i.e. annually here in the UK..)
You could also ship multiple versions or just have one which provides internet based updating allowing curriculum changes to be mnade as & when & also enabling support for a wide variety of qualification schemes..
I'd also like to note that it's a much more economical approach too since a local high school could pick up several PS2s, copies of the game & buzzers for a LOT less than they'd be able to get an entire suite decked out with PCs & equipment for the more professional & focussed alternatives..
Not necessarily as a "teaching" tool per say but definitely as a "testing" tool..
During the period leading up to exams student will be working hard to test there knowledge on what they've been taught through the semester, find out how much they know/remember & try to identify & cover the areas that they don't in time for the examinations..
What better way to do this than sitting round with a group of friends during study leave period to play a couple of rounds of Buzz! & not only making the whole learning experience much less depressing for most students but also helping them test there knowledge & gain an understanding of the scope & context of topics which will be covered in the examinations..?
I think it's a brilliant idea & I also think it would be something even more suited to college & degree level students too provided the software is robust & flexible enough to provide quick & simple modification to the question database as & when the curriculum gets updated (i.e. annually here in the UK..)
You could also ship multiple versions or just have one which provides internet based updating allowing curriculum changes to be mnade as & when & also enabling support for a wide variety of qualification schemes..
I'd also like to note that it's a much more economical approach too since a local high school could pick up several PS2s, copies of the game & buzzers for a LOT less than they'd be able to get an entire suite decked out with PCs & equipment for the more professional & focussed alternatives..
It's not a bad thing, its simply that this has been done for some time now and in what I consider a far better way for all people who use it in some way.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Actually you did. Anyways, I think you get my point.
For the record, the UK system (actually England and Wales, as Scotland does its own thing) which this lawyer chump was talking about is not like the US system (as described by Skyring. I've no knowledge of the US educational system otherwise). The class computer is used for class teaching activities on interactive whiteboards. These are ubiquitous now I think - it was certainly a government initiative to have whiteboards in every classroom a few years back, though the Sticks are probably without. A common use is web games or Flash quizzes. The class computers aren't used by the teachers for administration. Paper records are used for attendance etc. and the office staff handle the computerisation of data. Teachers are provided with a laptop used for their own administration, lesson planning, finding resources, etc. IT competence is generally quite low - no different to the mainstream populace from whom the teaching population is drawn. Using packages is fine, but having to learn new packages on top of workload is asking a bit much.
And workload is very high. The paperwork a teacher has to do is crazy, and alongside the ordinary aspects of teaching there are a million and one other additional tasks that consume their time. inputting a load of questions, no matter how quick and easy it is in principle, is still too much additional work for teachers to welcome a DIY quiz package. That's why out-of-the-box solutions sell, with the whole package provided. In that respect, a quiz that covers a lot of the curriculum and presents it in an entertaining, engaging way is a worthwhile endeavour and attached to the cred of a games console rather than a PC, would probably have a (tiny) bit more take with the kids. The major downside is this thing is requires equipment that the schools don't have as standard, wouldn't waste money buying do to limited use, and they'd still have to faf about setting it up with a display too. A PC title that runs on the class computer already wired to the projector would be a better design.
