Business ramifications of piracy *spawn

[Shifty Geezer]

But what is the software behind this hack? We've only just had the keys released. We've had one XML file edit, and one custom firmware that bricks some PS3s. Is this running on jailbroken PS3s only? When did the new hacked servers come into and ruin people's games? And how can a hacked PS3 screw with the server stats?!

Has anyone yet explained what the new problem is and how it's tied to cracked PS3s? the quotes so far are unspecific, saying security is tied to platform security.

 

[BoardBonobo]

It sounds far more like exploited server vulnerabilities than any kind of access through a hacked end users box.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's the problem I have. We have no explanation of what's wrong. We're just told the issue platform security vulnerabilities with no explanation how. Is this game running on IW servers or user's PS3's?

 

[BRiT]

If it's anything like MW2 on the XB360, there are no dedicated servers. It's strictly p2p servers. The way earlier MW2 hacks occurred was from editing a settings file detailing how the game mode was to function. The effect took place once the user with the hacked file was selected as the server host. Those settings were viral. They would spread to other non-hacked file systems as they remained in memory. The easiest sure-fire way for the viral users to undo the hacks was to power cycle the system. These earlier hacks were things such as movement speed and killstreak rewards.

In some cases, there would be JTAG'd xbox 360 systems used for 10th Prestige lobbies, where upon entering a game with that system as server host and completing it, the user would gain enough experience to advance up from level 0 all the way to the maximum level 11 times over. I don't know if you had to play 10 quick games or it occurred all in a single game. Prestige is when you reach the max level and opt to reset back to level 0. Each prestige level gives you a different in game medal (not a game achievement) and every other prestige level adds a new custom class slot.

This is the first I've heard of and seen it happen where people's ranks and challenges were completely reset. I suppose it might be possible for them to use negative experience numbers to cause users to de-level.

 

[corduroygt]

There has been an update for MW2 and BO on the 360 that blocks pirated discs via an online check. Does that mean the DVD firmware flash guys finally made one that was undetectable by MS so people can pirate and be on live? I mean why else would they bother with an update for specific games if you could ban the modded boxes from Live like they've done numerous times before? Or is MS ok with people pirating disc games but buying games and subscriptions from XBL?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If it's anything like MW2 on the XB360, there are no dedicated servers. It's strictly p2p servers.

Well that'll always be a problem then unless you incorporate suitable checks in the server. There'll also be some "creative individuals" who add network gubbins to mess about with the game. I suppose in this case what's happening is game data is being hacked on jailbroken PS3's to screw with server settings; something that the developers trusted wasn't going to happen hence the comments that they are dependent on system level security and they'll change their approach in future.

In that respect, yes, this is a problem. Any PS3 P2P game (many of them) is going to run the risk of having cracked servers messing things about. If that becomes endemic, it'll break the online experience, but I don't yet feel it'll come to that.

 

[BoardBonobo]

The response from Activision given to one individual who complained would seem to indicate that it is running on dedicated servers. As they threatened to pull the plug at any time they wanted as that is, apparently, covered by the terms of service?

 

[aaronspink]

The response from Activision given to one individual who complained would seem to indicate that it is running on dedicated servers. As they threatened to pull the plug at any time they wanted as that is, apparently, covered by the terms of service?

The matchmaking may be via private server, but the actual gameplay is all P2P.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The matchmaking servers are certainly hosted by Activision and without those you can't play, at least until hackers create their own network and matchmaking service if they were so inclined.

Gameplay once a match is set is P2P.

As such anyone with a hacked console could affect any other player in that match depending on how the game was run. There was a rather infamous DLL hack back in the Quake days I believe that allowed malicious users to force a download of the DLL when logging into a Quake match which allowed access to remote computers file systems.

This probably isn't anywhere near that bad, but it is worrying none the less.

Regards,
SB

 

[Rangers]

The response from Activision given to one individual who complained would seem to indicate that it is running on dedicated servers. As they threatened to pull the plug at any time they wanted as that is, apparently, covered by the terms of service?

As the big Neogaf thread makes clear, that was more a case of an aggressive complainer threatening to sue Activision, at which time basically a (I'm sure low level) representative pointed out they could technically shut down the servers and be within their rights.

Given how well that game is still selling on PS3 in Europe, you can forget about that ever happening.

 

[BRiT]

There has been an update for MW2 and BO on the 360 that blocks pirated discs via an online check. Does that mean the DVD firmware flash guys finally made one that was undetectable by MS so people can pirate and be on live? I mean why else would they bother with an update for specific games if you could ban the modded boxes from Live like they've done numerous times before? Or is MS ok with people pirating disc games but buying games and subscriptions from XBL?

If you're talking about the update the other day, it's MS adding AP2.5 checks to some of the more popular games (COD:MW2, COD:BO, and Halo: Reach). Unfortunately for MS, all the piraters need is the latest LiteTouch+ firmware with SSv3 data (security sector v3) for those games and the pirated versions will still function.

MS does ban JTAG'd consoles within 4 hours of them signing onto XBox Live. The trouble is, the hackers just purchase another CPU KeyVault set, typically shared across multiple console sometimes as many as 15, then they reflash their JTAG unit, and they're back on XBL again.

There are also certain DVD drive models (early Samsung and Hitachi) that are old enough on original consoles that do not support the AP2.5 checks, so they're able to get by with older modified DVD firmware.

 

[nightshade]

There has been an update for MW2 and BO on the 360 that blocks pirated discs via an online check. Does that mean the DVD firmware flash guys finally made one that was undetectable by MS so people can pirate and be on live? I mean why else would they bother with an update for specific games if you could ban the modded boxes from Live like they've done numerous times before? Or is MS ok with people pirating disc games but buying games and subscriptions from XBL?

The AP2.5 update was patched within 24 hours by crackers.

 

[BRiT]

Yes, the pirates had patch files available for those games within a day of them being detected. However, it's likely the update has done it's job. There were several pirates who were initially caught and even after the updated hacks are available there are still pirates who are being caught. Not all of them follow the scene that closely or check daily before playing. It's likely their systems now have 1 more maybe even 3 more ban-bit(s) set.

MS doesn't seem to ban non-JTAGed consoles by just a single detection event so they seem to build up a list of multiple events. Once you break a certain threshold, your console goes in the hopper for their next ban-wave.

To pull this back onto topic, this is likely what Sony will end up having to do on their PS3 -- determine what events classify as a pirate system, keep track of them, and once it breaks their threshold attempt to remove them off PSN. However, Sony likely has a much harder time depending on what unique identifying nonspoofable pieces of system information they have available.

 

[Gerry]

Edge reporting that a Dutch site has said Sony are likely to start using serial codes on new games.

Can only be used 5 times.

 

[AmFreak]

It's the same as baning people from psn, cause such codes can only stop online piracy.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How would that help? Unless you have to validate via phone or internet, which would be a crap customer experience (we play FIFA every Tuesday at two houses, the copy of the game belonging to a third friend. That's three codes used requiring three authentications.), offline can just ignore the code issue for offline play.

 

[Zaphod]

Of course it won't stop all piracy, but online verification will stop some, As a bonus it might drive more people to PSN. Of course this will have to be counted against lost sales from perpetually offline users, but it might still be a net win. (Even though they wouldn't have considered it as such pre-hack.)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Of course it won't stop all piracy, but online verification will stop some...

Honestly, if I have to ask permission to use something I have rightfully bought, I'll become more inclined to support custom firmware that hacks out such security. Anti piracy measures that punish the legitimate users are never good, especially when they so rarely stop piracy to any degree.

 

[Zaphod]

Fully agreed. Just trying to grasp their logic.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't think DRM follows a logic; at least not one grounded in evaluation of its impact. The only logic seems to be a panic response, just do anything without really thinking through what it means.