Business ramifications of piracy *spawn

[ban25]

I actually think it could bring the PS4 forward a bit, maybe by 6 months if the piracy situation gets particularly bad. Certainly poor Move sales won't help.

 

[Trejser]

I actually think it could bring the PS4 forward a bit, maybe by 6 months if the piracy situation gets particularly bad. Certainly poor Move sales won't help.

Move is selling quite good actually, they shipped 4.1m by the end od November and it's probably sold to customers by now (there are still shortages in some countries). Software was poor in 2010, Move will sell better this year

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As an example EA for instance may be able to bypass PSN entirely and hook into their own servers directly. They already have the servers but now they even implement cross platform play between PC and PS3 or even cross console play. It is in their best interests to cross the divide between consoles, it is in Sony's current best interests to keep them apart. Beyond PSN, what if they bypass PSN store? They could sell content directly sans the 30% fee or any other content restrictions. They could distribute game demos, trailers or whatever they want without Sony's explicit say so right?

As aaronspink mentioned, doing this EA would have to prove they aren't using anything learnt under NDA from Sony. If they created their own network (something I think gamers would be against, as we want a unified gaming experience with one login etc.), they'd need to prove they weren't using such info, which it's going to be hard to convince a jury of when EA have been using that licensed info for years to develop on PS3. I don't see much business sense in what you suggest. I also don't think separating Pc and console gamers is Sony's decision or in Sony's best interests. They are okay with it in MMOs for example. AFAIK Sony doesn't run the game servers, so it's no extra cost to them if the PS3 users meet up with the PC users. I think the separation is as much due to platform difference (mouse + KB versus controller) and such.

 

[obonicus]

Its because about 8.5M est live in areas where piracy exceeds 50% on other systems. Thats Eastern Europe, Iberia, Middle East etc along with South America, and various other asian nations.

Dude, vgchartz. Before you use their numbers in an argument, think about what trackers they're using to obtain their information. If you can't think of any, that's because they make stuff up.

 

[obonicus]

I actually think it could bring the PS4 forward a bit, maybe by 6 months if the piracy situation gets particularly bad. Certainly poor Move sales won't help.

I agree that if things get really bad PS4 might come early, but that's a big 'might'; it's not clear if anyone wants to make their move before Nintendo does -- people won't necessarily want to buy a new console just because a new console's been released (see DC). As for Move, that's the trouble with this discussion: the Move hasn't bombed. It's done well. Not as well as Kinect, but it certainly hasn't failed, even if in forum parlance 'not as well as something else' can be translated into 'failed'.

 

[obonicus]

The same applies to the other publishers as well. They may have to jump through some hoops to take advantage of a now open console at first but the rewards may offer enough incentive for them to do so. So what can Sony do about it? Would they be forced to offer concessions on PSN, royalties, restrictions in order to keep the publishers happy and keep the status quo?

All indicates that publishers and platform holders already have a relationship like this. Platform holders help foot the marketing bill for titles in exchange for minor exclusivity, for instance, and I can't imagine the licensing and manufacturing costs are the same across all publishers and titles.

 

[ERP]

The other big question aside from how much piracy is going to happen is whether or not the game industry will take advantage of the leaked keys as well. Given their biggest cost in releasing games next to actually developing them is the right to develop the games in the first place there will have to have been some very interesting discussions at the various publishing houses as to the implications of this. It is bad enough if Sony needs EA as much as EA needs Sony, however this changes the relationship between the two of them. Worse still is if all the big publishers follow suit, Sony can't blackball all of them in the future for looking after their own best interests especially as all major publishers have had problems in this cycle of consoles returning a decent profit for their investment.

Anyone already developing on the platform, signed a contract that prevents them from doing this.

If they did decide to do this, they would have to create their own tool-chains and libraries, somehow prove they did it with no Sony documentation, and likely create a shell company, to do development and publishing with that toolset.

If you assume the PS3 is going to be around for at least another 4 years, and that any real impact from this is probably a couple of years away, it probably isn't financially viable to do this.

Publishers will go on with what they are doing and see how it pans out. If sales start to drop substantially on the platform, you'll see less investment, but I don't think anyone is going to pre-emptively do that.

 

[itsmydamnation]

assuming that there is nothing that can be done for current hardware other then to slow things down my wacky idea is:

1. fix the underlying hardware/firmware issues for a new hardware revision
2. rush to the next node as quick as possible wether thats 32nm 28nm
3. release a new SKU at a lower price point
4. release the new SKU with more ram, still require all games to run with current memeory but allow a "high memory mode" i guess like the memory expansion for the N64.
5. it must be even slimmer
6. possibility to have a trade in system, not a 1:1 replacement.

the point is the create a point of differentiation between the new and the old that will see people with older SKU's wanting to replace with newer ones.

 

[minimoke]

I seem to recall a patent filed by SCEA about six months ago for a PS3.5, maybe they will fast track this!

 

[Xenus]

Simply put it's a stupidly short sighted move to do so even assuming the PS3 will be a lead console for something as much as 4 years out you don't damage your publisher console maker over something like that.

 

[betan]

I seem to recall a patent filed by SCEA about six months ago for a PS3.5, maybe they will fast track this!

External processor patent is old and doesn't seem cost efficient for PS3 or something similar.

Best to wait for Sony to respond (with action).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I seem to recall a patent filed by SCEA about six months ago for a PS3.5, maybe they will fast track this!

Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!
(it was never a patent for a PS3 add-on, but a communications component to a processor architecture, which doesn't exist in PS3)

 

[Elan Tedronai]

in the coming few days people are going to have to decide between PSN or a modified firmware. It seems Console IDs is something sony can ban without much problems. That is without worrying too much about whether the console they banned was from a legitimate consumer instead of the hacker.

This is the first step they are taking to tackling this problem. There are other stuff being planned with regards to upcoming games as well.

Oh and PSN IDS are not off limits either:smile:

 

[manux]

in the coming few days people are going to have to decide between PSN or a modified firmware. It seems Console IDs is something sony can ban without much problems. That is without worrying too much about whether the console they banned was from a legitimate consumer instead of the hacker.

This is the first step they are taking to tackling this problem. There are other stuff being planned with regards to upcoming games as well.

Oh and PSN IDS are not off limits either:smile:

How do you know this or are you just guessing?

 

[BRiT]

in the coming few days people are going to have to decide between PSN or a modified firmware.

And how exactly will Sony be able to determine if you're running a modified or custom firmware? From what it seems, they won't be able to.

 

[draconian]

Sony files suit against geohotz and failoverflow

http://podcasts.aolcdn.com/engadget/files/GeohotProposedOrder.pdf

http://podcasts.aolcdn.com/engadget/files/GeohotMotion.pdf

§ 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties

(a) In General.— Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain—
(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.
(b) Limitation for Nonprofit Library, Archives, Educational Institution, or Public Broadcasting Entity.— Subsection (a) shall not apply to a nonprofit library, archives, educational institution, or public broadcasting entity (as defined under section 118 (g).[1]
(c) Statute of Limitations.— No criminal proceeding shall be brought under this section unless such proceeding is commenced within 5 years after the cause of action arose.

My question is, how come sony get's to sue Geohotz, but Apple didn't? Was there some technicality that apple couldn't overcome? Apple is notorious for suing people.

Sadly, I won't shed a tear if sony loses or if Geohotz loses.


The last time someone was sued for console modding. He discusses the dmca and such

Some readers may be aware that I was called upon to perform as an expert witness in a landmark case, USA v. Crippen, where for the first time an individual, Mr. Crippen, was charged with an alleged violation of the criminal portion of the DMCA statute. There have been numerous civil cases over the same statute, but this is the first time that a felony conviction could result from a court case.

As reported by numerous sources, the case was dismissed after the first witness’ testimony. This would be as if two armies brought all their artillery and troops to a border, fired a single shot, and then one side surrendered, realizing that there is no point incurring casualties for a war they cannot win. And thanks to double-jeopardy provision of the US constitution, Mr. Crippen cannot be tried again, since a jury was assembled for his trial. It is a remarkable victory for Mr. Crippen’s defense: as Sun Tzu said in The Art of War, “The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities”.

...read the rest at his blog

http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=1472

 

[senas8]

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Sony Computer Entertainment America Files Lawsuit Against Geohot!


http://www.geohot.com/

 

[deathindustrial]

I gather Sony has never heard of the Streisand Effect.

 

[Zaphod]

I believe it's been established that a cryptographic key does not meet the minimum threshold of originality required for copyright.

It's interesting that they claim the key itself as a circumvention device, though. I wonder if they can make that argument fly in the end.

I guess that the illegality of distributing misc. "hacking tools" involved in obtaining said key and exploiting other vulnerabilities is pretty clear cut, though.

 

[Mize]

Just read that it's not a lawsuit but a restraining order on distribution of the hacks. Lawsuit will likely follow. Guess that's basically an admission that they now realize they cannot patch it.