Business aspects of Subscription Game Libraries [Xbox GamePass, PSNow]

You should at “yet” at the end of your post.
No, because I'm floating a counterargument to your presented evidence. You stated a perspective, and I challenge it with a possible alternative that fits the current data. They might still change the terms of the agreement, but your argument is based on what they have done. We don't know what they will do.

I reiterate, MS increasing the price for new subscriptions is not evidence that Day 1 titles on GP is not profitable at the current price. It might well be so long as everyone subscribes in perpetuity instead of ad hoc.
 
You can get GP Core (aka Xbox live) for $60 a year, same as it was years ago (when I was ten years old it was the same price). That’s $5 a month.

GPU is 4x that at $20 a month.
Not for long. Yearly Core is going up to $74.99, so more like $6.25 a month. The month to month price remains $9.99, though.
That means Ultimate is going to be 3.2x the price of Core if you buy a years worth, or 2x if you are month to month. But right now, at the current $60 yearly core price and $16.99 Ultimate price, Ultimate is 3.4x more than Core. So proportionally Ultimate is going to be closer to Core than it is right now. Unless you are month to month.

What does this all mean? I have no idea. What I do know is that people saying Gamepass Ultimate is now more than the price of 3 $70 games aren't factoring the price of playing online. Which will be $74.99 yearly or $$119.88 month to month. Which means the price difference between having Core is more like 2 games (either 1.7 or 2.3 depending on your core sub), and not the "more than 3" people are talking about.

You should at “yet” at the end of your post. As MS also claimed there would be no price hikes due to COD coming to gamepass..

The FTC saw this long coming and even tried to warn us:
The problem that the FTC is going to have here is proving that COD is the direct cause of the price increase. The way Gamepass works, or at least has worked, is that third party games come and go from the service, but first party games get added and never leave. That means, as time goes on, Gamepass has more permanent games than it did in the past. Which also means that it has a quantifiable increase in value. And I know people are going to say that games depreciate in value over time. And that can be true, but... Halo Infinite still has an MSRP of $59.99 (though it's on sale right now). Used copies and supply can't affect the price if no one buys a physical copy of a game. Anecdotally, there are 16 Gamestops in 100 miles of me. There are 3 used copies of Halo Infinite combined at 2 stores available, because physical copies of it weren't sold as much because it launched directly into Gamepass. So if 3-5 first party games launch into the service at $60-70 each and don't get a price drop, the value of Gamepass's library gets higher every year, assuming the 3rd party games have a fairly consistent value.

I reiterate, MS increasing the price for new subscriptions is not evidence that Day 1 titles on GP is not profitable at the current price. It might well be so long as everyone subscribes in perpetuity instead of ad hoc.
With the binary choice of Gamepass being either profitable or not, I don't know why the people arguing that the FTC or another regulator should have blocked the deal for the good of the consumers are also often the ones arguing that Gamepass doesn't make money. If Xbox is losing money on Gamepass, that means the deal the consumer gets from Gamepass is exceptional. But that also means that if Gamepass goes away, so does the value to the consumers. But if Gamepass changes, like a $3 per month price increase, to make it profitable, so that it can remain a good deal for consumers, that's somehow bad for consumers. And the better option would be for a government to mandate that Xbox lose money until they are bankrupt for the good of the consumer, which would of course lead to a Sony monopoly in the "high end" console space.
 
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No, because I'm floating a counterargument to your presented evidence. You stated a perspective, and I challenge it with a possible alternative that fits the current data. They might still change the terms of the agreement, but your argument is based on what they have done. We don't know what they will do.

I reiterate, MS increasing the price for new subscriptions is not evidence that Day 1 titles on GP is not profitable at the current price. It might well be so long as everyone subscribes in perpetuity instead of ad hoc.
This is easy to answer with econ 101. Here's your supply and demand curve(we can ignore supply as that's unlimited, data is post scarcity):

image4-4.png


As price, Y axis, goes up quantity sold, X axis goes down exponentially (this is true for 99% of goods, but even if the lines were straight it wouldn't matter). Vice versa: As price goes down, quantity sold goes up. What MS, what all companies, want to do is maximize the area of that dotted line square, set the price such that, times the quantity they sell they earn the most money possible. Now, other AAA games charge far more for day 1 access than MS does for Day 1 gamespass. They shift that box up and to the left compared to gamepass, less quantity but for far more money. What MS is doing is selling these games, the same goods, for far less money.

Now we have only 3 possible outcomes for this:
A. Every game company including Microsoft is charging too much for non Gamepass access to day 1 games, and they'd on average make much more money by charging less
B. Gamepass makes less money with Day 1 games than charging for those games separately, thus Microsoft has not maximized how much money it can make out of Gamepass
C. The difference between gamepass and non gamepass is different enough that the price difference equals out exactly such that MS and the average of every publisher have priced their respective things perfectly, such that neither could make more money by changing their prices at all

With those 3 being the only possibilities we can now simply deduce which one might be true, maybe with some evidence we could figure out which one! Or we could conclude as I have that Phil Spencer is a vastly overpromoted narcissist that hasn't paid attention to an econ or business class in his life, but has paid attention to how quickly he can get promoted in a vastly over bloated multi trillion dollar corporate behemoth, and now that he's reached his goal is finally being convinced by people with relevant skills that more money can be made (aka charging more for Gamepass).
 
This is easy to answer...
What's easy to answer? I wasn't asking a question. ;) The uncertainty here is "is GP profitable with the current number of subscribers" but I wasn't trying to answer that question. For those that have, it's been debated at length here and still no consensus. Your supply/demand curve isn't applicable though because this is a subscription service, not a physical product. Also, a business maximising profits is not the same thing as a service being profitable. Perhaps GP is not as optimal in generating revenue as conventional retail, but that doesn't mean it's a loss maker and it could be making just enough to cover costs and a little be more - profitable.

I'm also pretty sure that when these business plans are drawn up, there are a fair number of educated folk involved with their own slides and maths and forecasts. They might be wrong, but I think there's more consideration here than the basic college economics you're offering. I'm not convinced by the subscription model and I question MS can make money from it, and I've butted heads with @Johnny Awesome a fair few times on this, but I also see his maths and there's a logical argument there. No proof either way to my mind. But clearly MS's choices are informed by some particular decision making process, and those who attribute it just to a clueless dictatorship strike me as completely out of touch with how these business operate. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
What's next for Gamepass article. A cloud only tier is likely, as is the return of family plan. I for one am very excited for the new names MS can add to their crystal clear subscription line up!

A small part of the article talked about the Xbox library coming to stream still. They're aiming for this year.

 
Videogames are being destroyed! Most video games work indefinitely, but a growing number are designed to stop working as soon as publishers end support. This effectively robs customers, destroys games as an artform, and is unnecessary. Our movement seeks to pass new law in the EU to put an end to this practice. Our proposal would do the following:
  • Require video games sold to remain in a working state when support ends.
  • Require no connections to the publisher after support ends.
  • Not interfere with any business practices while a game is still being supported.
If you are an EU citizen, please sign the Citizens' Initiative!
 
Sure as long as the publisher supplies one for free as compensation for taking away my previous game
/although hopes thread doesn't devolve into a stop killing games argument /said the hypocrite
 
Why would you be against better rights for customers?
I'm sure we all agree that for some games anything online is just a gimmick and shouldn't stop the game from working when the "servers" are down.

But how do you expect such a law to work with more and more games with multiplayer/GaaS?

Assassin Odyssey has an in game dealer with offerings which change once a week and is dependent on online server access. IMHO a silly design decision and probably unnecessary. But did they do that because they were stupid, tried to optimise costs and avoid Q&A for a patch to add new things or just applied some existing code from perhaps Division or whatever other game. I don't know.
 
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I'm sure we all agree that for some games anything online is just a gimmick and shouldn't stop the game from working when the "servers" are down.

But how do you expect such a law to work with more and more games with multiplayer/GaaS?

Assassin Odyssey has an in game dealer with offerings which change once a week and is dependent on online server access. IMHO a silly design decision and probably unnecessary. But did they do that because they were stupid, tried to optimise costs and avoid Q&A/costs for a patch to add new things or just applied some existing code from perhaps Division or whatever other game. I don't know.
As the proposal says, the dev wouldn't really have to do much. They just need to allow private servers, like any multiplayer game 20 years ago did.

It wouldn't be retroactive, so Ubisoft wouldn't have to do anything with odyssey. It's for games launching like 3 years from now, so devs would have the time to allow this to work.
 
They could even just release the server build to deploy on whatever server you want. No source code. No secrets. Just the client .exe you already have, and the server .exe, and leave it at that. Users themselves could then deploy it on Amazon AWS or just a PC in someone's basement. So the devs wouldn't be required to integrate game hosting onto a client or do anything at all in terms of extra work.
 
They could even just release the server build to deploy on whatever server you want. No source code. No secrets. Just the client .exe you already have, and the server .exe, and leave it at that. Users themselves could then deploy it on Amazon AWS or just a PC in someone's basement. So the devs wouldn't be required to integrate game hosting onto a client or do anything at all in terms of extra work.
Absolutely, devs would just hand over the keys and then it would be the community responsibility to make it work.
 
As the proposal says, the dev wouldn't really have to do much. They just need to allow private servers, like any multiplayer game 20 years ago did.

It wouldn't be retroactive, so Ubisoft wouldn't have to do anything with odyssey. It's for games launching like 3 years from now, so devs would have the time to allow this to work.

I consider that unrealistic for a lot modern games with complex backends. From providing physic hosts and game/player related coherence states/databases and what not. Who also knows what this actually runs on. Some custom windows/linux setups or designed for some virtual cloud servers to scale dynamically and regions.

Do you expect they would provide a plug and play solution for people to run on Windows and continue working post game support?
 
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