Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[-tkf-]

Yeah, some of it was inevitable I think. I dont feel the competition is really on the ball enough to take (real, lasting) advantage of any MS stumbles. Sony and Nintendo are hardly Samsung and Apple.

I think 499 is the biggest problem from day 1 no matter what gets the headlines. At 399 it would be a different ballgame in pre-orders/early sales and thus perception.

The last 90 degrees and they would be back on track, it would not surprise me if they pulled that out of the hat

 

[-tkf-]

It's one of the classic cases of manufactured outrage based on scant information.

Considering the backlash they got, it's surprising they kept that information "scant", don't you think so?

 

[eastmen]

I don't think MS wants to loose about $70 per system and they wont ditch Kinect .

Considering the backlash they got, it's surprising they kept that information "scant", don't you think so?

MS had very specific drum beats they wanted to hit to keep the one in the news. The problem is the forum warrior backlash on the DRM caused everything to go to hell .

The original plan was to talk up the tv features of the system , move into the games , then into indie stuff and finally go into Kinect features / drm closer to launch.

 

[bkilian]

Considering the backlash they got, it's surprising they kept that information "scant", don't you think so?

Nope. It's classic Microsoft. They specifically said, multiple times, that they would reveal more about the indie publishing at a later date, and they refused to be bullied into revealing stuff before they were ready. Whether it's the right or the wrong decision, it's pure Microsoft.

 

[Billy Idol]

Nope. It's classic Microsoft. They specifically said, multiple times, that they would reveal more about the indie publishing at a later date, and they refused to be bullied into revealing stuff before they were ready. Whether it's the right or the wrong decision, it's pure Microsoft.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79309/xbox-one-wont-allow-indies-to-self-publish-games

When asked if developers will still need a publisher to get content onto Xbox Live, Matt Booty, general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, told us that "as of right now, yes. We intend to continue to court developers in the ways that we have."

This is what people take as a message. You really cannot accuse people (and the internet) that they are stupid coming to the conclusion 'no self publishing'. I hope that this is really not the way MS PR thinks, although it would explain a lot recently...

He did add that "I would also expect that for this new generation, that we're going to continue to explore new business models and new ways of surfacing content. But Microsoft Studios is a publisher that works with a wide range of partners, as do a lot of other people, to bring digital content to the box."

This is way to vague and can mean everything or nothing. There are like 100 interviews with indie devs out there that moan about MS indie strategy for the X1 and are really angry about MS. They sure believe that their uproar and pressure forced MS to backpedal once again.

But you know what at the end: great news for indies, but especially great for gamers.

 

[hesido]

Again, if they had this planned 9 months ago, it's another showcase of MS's inability to convey its message.

I'm not a PR expert but instead of saying "We have nothing to announce", they could have gone "We are planning to introduce new protocols, which I'm sure Indies will love, it has the potential to shape the market. Details will come pre-launch."(or maybe they could even name the specific convention they were planning if things were more concrete)

This would have created enough hype to give MS some time to breathe.

Anyway, this is megaton, IMHO. Very bold move. I too think it has potential for hacking, but if they allow development on the platform, there's going to be less incentive to hack the thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, PS3 hacking effort quadrupled after the removal of the OtherOS.

 

[Nesh]

Do it this way or do it that way, if you're MS you're doing it wrong anyhow.

MS said all along that they'll tell about the indie plan when they have it ready, but now that they'll tell about it people just bitch that "you're only doing it because the competitor did it this way"

A small part of their indie plan was revealed already. Hence why indie devs bithced. We bitched, they saw catastrophe coming and they changed it. We just stated the facts. If people bitch its because MS brought it to themselves

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This is what people take as a message. You really cannot accuse people (and the internet) that they are stupid coming to the conclusion 'no self publishing'. I hope that this is really not the way MS PR thinks, although it would explain a lot recently...

That's the message I recall that launched complaints, while Sony was generating positive vibes talking about their strategy to support everyone, streamling their process, not needing a publisher, etc. So this smells like another 180 to me too, even if MS were planning open indie support. They said, "games need publishers" and the likes of bkilian explained to us that that meant a company needed experience selling disk games to count as a publisher, who'd be allowed to publish one download for each two disk titles.

I wonder if cross-platform will be properly supported? Can someone create a game and publisher for all machines?

 

[Kaotik]

A small part of their indie plan was revealed already. Hence why indie devs bithced. We bitched, they saw catastrophe coming and they changed it. We just stated the facts. If people bitch its because MS brought it to themselves

No, they didn't change it because of "bitching".
It was the same old "XB360 indie policy", which was still in effect at the time simply because there was no new plan ready to be released yet.
That's why they said "as of right now it's this", and that's why they said "we do have a indie plan, and we'll tell about it once we're ready to tell about it"

 

[Nesh]

No, they didn't change it because of "bitching".
It was the same old "XB360 indie policy", which was still in effect at the time simply because there was no new plan ready to be released yet.
That's why they said "as of right now it's this", and that's why they said "we do have a indie plan, and we'll tell about it once we're ready to tell about it"

[sarcasm] Thats why at the same time indies were complaining about MS's new plans for XBone and were shifting over to PS4. Because nothing was planned to change. [/sarcasm]
You havent been following the news

If things were the same these news wouldnt have been any news and you wouldnt be getting news titles like "Microsoft May Reverse Another Policy…Self-Publishing" since there would have been nothing to reverse

http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mi...ft-may-reverse-another-policy-self-publishing

Stop hiding behind your finger

 

[warb]

If we don't know what their plan was, how can we know that they've reversed on it?

This seems like an streamlining and expansion of what was already there for XNA.

 

[Kaotik]

[sarcasm] Thats why at the same time indies were complaining about MS's new plans for XBone and were shifting over to PS4. Because nothing was planned to change. [/sarcasm]
You havent been following the news

If things were the same these news wouldnt have been any news and you wouldnt be getting news titles like "Microsoft May Reverse Another Policy…Self-Publishing" since there would have been nothing to reverse

http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mi...ft-may-reverse-another-policy-self-publishing

Stop hiding behind your finger

What keeps any of those sites alive? Clicks do. And the more "scandalous" news you write, the more clicks you get, it's really that simple.
"MS reverses another policy" pulls in a lot more clicks than "MS announces their indie policy"

Indies were bitching because they didn't know any more than we did, only information available was that the old "no self-publishing" was still in effect because there was no XB1 specific policy yet, but MS made it clear that they do have a indie policy coming up, and they'll tell about it when they're ready.

All that just got drowned in all the negative press MS was getting at the time.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Indies were bitching because they didn't know any more than we did, only information available was that the old "no self-publishing" was still in effect because there was no XB1 specific policy yet, but MS made it clear that they do have a indie policy coming up...

Not amazingly, because MS are currently useless at communicating. Quote:

"as of right now, yes. We intend to continue to court developers in the ways that we have."

Not, "we are going to be introducing new, easier, more inclusive policies for developers for developers which we're not ready to talk about yet," nor even, "our policy regards XB1 development for independent developers hasn't been decided, but it's premature to say it'll continue exactly as is." There was no hint at a different indie policy, only comments that 'we are always looking at new ways blah blah' and it would appear that MS found a new way thanks to pressure from the industry (internet bitchers and competition).

One can believe that MS lack of explicit information meant they were keeping their cards close to their chest, but the comments that were released to the public paint a picture of no such considerations going on. The fact it isn't ready for launch shows MS weren't planning open development for all from the outset, or else it'd be in the FW from day one. It's something they've decided to introduce later, requiring the software to be rewritten and updated. Either that or it's hideously complicated to implement.

 

[Rangers]

Yeah Sony, there's one company you really want to emulate, they make so much money

they had xblig for years when sony had nothing of the sort, so who's following? to this day as far as i know it's way more open on 360 in many respects than ps3.

i guess the difference is the indies feel like they're sectioned off to second fiddle on xbox with xblig, so that's changing.

Regardless, for someone in their bedroom making a game it's much easier on 360 than PS3 AFAIK.

Here's a little article I found a while back where a Indie dev says they sell 10k games A DAY on XBLIG. But you never hear about success stories like this regarding MS

http://indiestatik.com/2013/07/16/xblig/

Oh but he's whining MS is dropping XBLIG. So it's case # 5 million of no matter what MS does, literally, it's a whine fest.

If you just read boards and gaming media all day for the past 5 years MS hates indies and XBLIG is never mentioned let alone given any credit. It always bothers me how Sony was always given credit for being more indie friendly in the media (like Weekend Confirmed podcast) when they have nothing that remotely compares to the openness of XBLIG.

 

[Cjail]

MS changed policies about self publishing not to emulate Sony but because it makes so much more sense to have indies on board rather than not.
Sony obviously understood it way before MS but really sensible business practices do not belong to a company or another.

 

[warb]

Apparently this has been MS's plan for indie games since at least Feb 2012. So they're just bad at playing opinions, and letting those who make the most noise in on the plan.

 

[bkilian]

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79309/xbox-one-wont-allow-indies-to-self-publish-games



This is what people take as a message. You really cannot accuse people (and the internet) that they are stupid coming to the conclusion 'no self publishing'. I hope that this is really not the way MS PR thinks, although it would explain a lot recently...

And one of the ways they court developers right now is through XBLIG, which is self-publishing. So I can easily accuse people of being stupid and reading what they wanted into a simple, non-ambiguous statement. The problem is that "indie" devs don't _want_ XBLIG. What they actually want is publisher level support and marketing without having to pay for it. They don't want to self publish on XBLIG. They want to "self publish" on XBLA, which has much lower volume.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's because they can self-publish on every other platform without a distinction being made. If you want to self-publish on PS3, you can, and can on PS4. those same developers are wanting to have the same opportunity on XB1, to stand side-by-side the AAA funded titles. The argument about what it costs and why there's a difference is never really entered into, and people just see a distinction and consider it unfair. If there's a valid justification, someone needs to be communicating it.

 

[warb]

Didn't MS make it clear a while back that there'd be no such distinction on XB1?

 

[babybumb]

So Marc Whitten is promising exactly the same access to every single person as AAA gets.

EVERYTHING that is under NDA? Whitten is bending the truth here pretty hard.

If Microsoft does not quickly deny these claims then it is probably what is really is:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/24/xbox-one-indie-self-publishing/

However, this is yet another example of them changing policy, but it sounding better than it is when the whole story is revealed. Make no mistake; while this is a great thing, it's again not the equivalent to what other platforms offer. On PS4, for example, developers can tap right into the system; use every bit of RAM and all of its power. Indies have access to everything that the AAA studios do, from platform support to development and release. The indication on Xbox One is that it's essentially XBLIG 2.0. Instead of XNA, it's Windows 8. Windows 8, which is already struggling to gain developer interest, will gain a boost from developers wishing to target the console. However, it won't be as full-fledged as published games on the system.