Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[hesido]

PS3 had homebrew yet was still a target.

It had homebrew without proper access to RSX, and anyway, I think it went well for a while, and hacking attempts were much increased after they removed the OtherOS (hackers simply didn't upgrade, and tore the PS3 apart). And there was also one very stupid USB debug device that got leaked, which also aided in these attempts. This is not to say that allowing homebrew eliminates pirates' desires, but Sony had basically invited everyone to the party when they disabled otherOS.

 

[MrFox]

No, the primer for hacking the PS3 was always the OtherOS bootloader, and it started as soon as the console was out, it was ongoing and some people spent years trying to hack it. The stolen debug key was necessary for the initial hack, but once a credible hack was proven, OtherOS was removed BECAUSE it was the attack vector and was determined impossible to secure. Lots of game journalist are history revisionists, it's click money I guess.

Off topic, Whenever someone brings up "homebrew" as an argument for hacking he's usually full of crap. Hacking starts as soon as the console is out, nothing will ever change that. There will always be some OCD people doing it for s&*t and giggles (or for the challenge and fame), pirate rings doing it for money and bootlegs, and security researchers doing it for fame and professional advancement. There will be people in each of these groups who have zero integrity, and a complete disregard for the consequence of their actions. It's never been honestly about homebrew.

On the subject of hacking consoles, the only people I'm ready to listen to are activists, and sadly the ones I either talked to or read about are a bunch of anarchists with a messed up world view, and their arguments have been completely irrational and selective. I'm still listening though, someone somewhere might be able to convince me with real arguments, because in other spheres of hacking I have been easily convinced.

 

[orangpelupa]

Ps3 hacking was started for very long before other os got deleted.

But hacker did not release their hack.

The cfw fiasco on ps3 are resulted from other hacker that modify the initial hack that explicitly disallow playing pirated games.

Btw the usb dongle and cfw are two different beast.

As for xbox 360, I the homebrew scene are dead. the hack that got popular are thee hack that allow running pirated games. Not homebrew.

 

[zupallinere]

So I don't contribute to the delinquency of commenters in the Digital Foundry thread I will suggest here that MS and DF, recently at least, are kind of like how Apple and the WSJ do things.

First of all MS is a complete Apple fanboy if such a thing was possible. IMHO they would love to create an Apple like consumer line with the same level of control ( and hopefully somewhat similar profit margins ). Having said that it would not surprise me in the least if MS would follow Apple when it comes to choosing a few outlets or just one outlet and strategically leaking stuff or hinting or whatever using that outlet. It's an open secret that when the WSJ gets a leak it's probably directly from Apple.

Sony isn't doing that if only because right now being out front with Cerny and the regular PR apparatus at their disposal is doing the job it seems. Maybe they will end up doing the same thing if needed ? Anyways I look forward to MS giving us a least a decent sized meal rather than crumbs when it come to some important tech details.

 

[temesgen]

So I don't contribute to the delinquency of commenters in the Digital Foundry thread I will suggest here that MS and DF, recently at least, are kind of like how Apple and the WSJ do things.

First of all MS is a complete Apple fanboy if such a thing was possible. IMHO they would love to create an Apple like consumer line with the same level of control ( and hopefully somewhat similar profit margins ). Having said that it would not surprise me in the least if MS would follow Apple when it comes to choosing a few outlets or just one outlet and strategically leaking stuff or hinting or whatever using that outlet. It's an open secret that when the WSJ gets a leak it's probably directly from Apple.

Sony isn't doing that if only because right now being out front with Cerny and the regular PR apparatus at their disposal is doing the job it seems. Maybe they will end up doing the same thing if needed ? Anyways I look forward to MS giving us a least a decent sized meal rather than crumbs when it come to some important tech details.

Why would they? I think its more likely we'll start to see MS articulate the overall theme of the user experience and why Kinect is important. We might see some interesting tid bits about Kinect tech but by their own admission specs don't matter so I don't see them highlighting anything which doesn't show them in a superior light.

 

[wco81]

Has there ever been an impressive game demo of Kinect?

All the supporters talk up potential, how developers will come up with interesting things since it's bundled. And they talk up the tech demo.

But you can't market potential future features that third party developers may come up with.

Say major games like fifa or COD add Kinect gestures. In ads they may mention the games have Kinect features but would they actually show them? Only if ms is paying for a big chunk of the air time maybe.

 

[Rangers]

Why would they? I think its more likely we'll start to see MS articulate the overall theme of the user experience and why Kinect is important. We might see some interesting tid bits about Kinect tech but by their own admission specs don't matter so I don't see them highlighting anything which doesn't show them in a superior light.

I got the vague feeling from a few Penello posts and some other stuff I heard back channel, that MS may talk up their hardware at some point. Penello also seemed to hint it might not be until both boxes are completely final and in production.

I wouldn't say I'd take this to the bank, but it's something to keep an eye out for.

At that time, if they're ever going to say stuff like in essence "The ESRAM makes our architecture turbocharged!, Here's how" They'd do it then. They wont compete on flops numbers I'm sure, obviously.

Gamescom or thereabouts maybe? (I'd assume in targeted Gamescom side interviews, not the presser) Who knows.

 

[Betanumerical]

I got the vague feeling from a few Penello posts and some other stuff I heard back channel, that MS may talk up their hardware at some point. Penello also seemed to hint it might not be until both boxes are completely final and in production.

I wouldn't say I'd take this to the bank, but it's something to keep an eye out for.

At that time, if they're ever going to say stuff like in essence "The ESRAM makes our architecture turbocharged!, Here's how" They'd do it then. They wont compete on flops numbers I'm sure, obviously.

Gamescom or thereabouts maybe? (I'd assume in targeted Gamescom side interviews, not the presser) Who knows.

So Microsoft hasn't started making XB1's yet?

 

[Bigduo209]

Has there ever been an impressive game demo of Kinect?

All the supporters talk up potential, how developers will come up with interesting things since it's bundled. And they talk up the tech demo.

But you can't market potential future features that third party developers may come up with.

Say major games like fifa or COD add Kinect gestures. In ads they may mention the games have Kinect features but would they actually show them? Only if ms is paying for a big chunk of the air time maybe.

But that's how it works for them. They use as much money as they can to create exposure for their product in any way possible. Even if it could fail, they will do everything they can to brute-force some marketshare into some semblance of success.

Microsoft Kin, Windows 8/RT, Zune, MSN, Bing, Windows Phone/Mobile, and Xbox/Kinect. Unless the market absolutely shows almost no interest in a MS product and/or service, they'll continue to pour money into it to make it work.

The Kinect only made it this far because of MS brute-forcing it with advertising and promotions everywhere. The product has enough of a distinction with hands-free motion controls to give it some traction, even if the core functionality isn't good enough for most use cases.

Now that they've created some brand-recognition and demand for Kinect, they will do everything under the sun to make it an actual success. That means delivering on the original concept as it was meant to be through the revision, and making it impossible to use the XB One without it being bundled and attached.

That last stipulation is still ridiculous to me since it's not built into the XB One, and is still 2 separate pieces of hardware attached by a cable. But it's what MS is doing to insure success for the Kinect, so who can tell them no? No one really, since the average consumer will have to actually opt-out of using it now. But they can only do it through a menu option, or not using the XB One at all.

 

[zupallinere]

Why would they? I think its more likely we'll start to see MS articulate the overall theme of the user experience and why Kinect is important. We might see some interesting tid bits about Kinect tech but by their own admission specs don't matter so I don't see them highlighting anything which doesn't show them in a superior light.

Well yeah when they start to reveal stuff through presentation and ads and the like it will go down like that. I am merely suggesting that they are looking at keeping interest at a certain level before then and one way to do that is to do what Apple does, not in the same way exactly of course.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Microsoft Kin, Windows 8/RT, Zune, MSN, Bing, Windows Phone/Mobile, and Xbox/Kinect. Unless the market absolutely shows almost no interest in a MS product and/or service, they'll continue to pour money into it to make it work.

Except you include a lot of failures in your examples that MS have abandoned.

The Kinect only made it this far because of MS brute-forcing it with advertising and promotions everywhere.

That's crock. Kinect did well because people were attracted to it, like Wii. You can't begrudge MS marketing their product so people are aware of it, or exploiting opportunities. In fact that opposite would be stupid, like Sony not pushing EyeToy in the States.

That last stipulation is still ridiculous to me since it's not built into the XB One, and is still 2 separate pieces of hardware attached by a cable.

It has to be to accommodate flexible positioning of the console relative to the TV. Otherwise MS would limit their consumers to those who want their big box sat right under/over the TV.

But it's what MS is doing to insure success for the Kinect, so who can tell them no? No one really, since the average consumer will have to actually opt-out of using it now. But they can only do it through a menu option, or not using the XB One at all.

Which is what's really happening here. MS have a vision, which isn't a basic games console for playing games any more. They have implemented that in their product. People will buy it or not depending on how MS's vision coordinates with the consumers' own. MS can't force people to buy a Kinect enabled XB1 any more than they could force us to buy Windows RT tablets or Zune devices (they couldn't, we didn't). Your argument just doesn't hold up in any way, shape, or form.

 

[dagamer]

So Microsoft hasn't started making XB1's yet?

Production and final assembly is likely to start this month if they want to have a healthy holiday supply. You'll know when photos start leaking of production units and boxing.

 

[MrFox]

It has to be to accommodate flexible positioning of the console relative to the TV. Otherwise MS would limit their consumers to those who want their big box sat right under/over the TV.

Yep, and I'd even pay for a wireless option. As much as I had a lot of fun with Move, I can't buy the PS4 Camera because they don't have an extension cable available. My PS3 Camera requires a USB2 extension, but this new thing is using a proprietary connector, so that's it, no sale.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Yep, and I'd even pay for a wireless option. As much as I had a lot of fun with Move, I can't buy the PS4 Camera because they don't have an extension cable available. My PS3 Camera requires a USB2 extension, but this new thing is using a proprietary connector, so that's it, no sale.

Hopefully the new Kinect is like Kinect 1, and you can plug it into the console using USB and power it with an external source. They'd be stupid not to, but I can actually see them making that oversight.

 

[Rangers]

So Microsoft hasn't started making XB1's yet?

I have no idea. Have they? What about PS4?

PS4 has at least went through the FCC already...

My guess is no as that other poster said, we will probably get blurrychinacam factory pics around that time.

 

[warb]

That's crock. Kinect did well because people were attracted to it, like Wii. You can't begrudge MS marketing their product so people are aware of it, or exploiting opportunities. In fact that opposite would be stupid, like Sony not pushing EyeToy in the States.

This is made clear if you compare to Surface with its $billion marketing budget. If new users/casuals were buying into Kinect, they were doing so with then ~£300 bundles.

 

[bkilian]

Hopefully the new Kinect is like Kinect 1, and you can plug it into the console using USB and power it with an external source. They'd be stupid not to, but I can actually see them making that oversight.

The new camera is powered from the console, and has a proprietary connector. I don't know of any plans to supply a USB3 breakout cable like the Kinect 1, which only had one to support older consoles. I also don't know anything about any plans to market an extension cable, but as far as I know, USB3 speeds are more finicky over long distances than USB2, so it may be difficult technically.

 

[Scott_Arm]

The new camera is powered from the console, and has a proprietary connector. I don't know of any plans to supply a USB3 breakout cable like the Kinect 1, which only had one to support older consoles. I also don't know anything about any plans to market an extension cable, but as far as I know, USB3 speeds are more finicky over long distances than USB2, so it may be difficult technically.

Doesn't hurt me any, but I know some people with their home theater setups hidden away in closets that won't be happy.

 

[MrFox]

If it's just USB3 (plus higher power), longer extensions can be used easily with integrated buffers/equalizers.
Monoprice is selling a 15ft USB3 extension for something like $10.

They also have Kinect extension with the proprietary connector, so chances are good
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=11403&cs_id=1140302&p_id=8487&seq=1&format=2

 

[Bigduo209]

Except you include a lot of failures in your examples that MS have abandoned.

It was combination of recent failures and recent products/services that MS is still trying to market. It was me talking up MS's marketing tactics, nothing more in that area.

That's crock. Kinect did well because people were attracted to it, like Wii. You can't begrudge MS marketing their product so people are aware of it, or exploiting opportunities. In fact that opposite would be stupid, like Sony not pushing EyeToy in the States.

Did you missed the where I said it had traction because of it's approach towards hands-free motion controls?

It has to be to accommodate flexible positioning of the console relative to the TV. Otherwise MS would limit their consumers to those who want their big box sat right under/over the TV.

I was outright stating it as my opinion, hence the "to me" part of my statement. Forcing the XB One to cease functioning without Kinect like it's one device is excessive, especially when it's two separate pieces of hardware. It's terrible for repair/replacement purposes for just not being able to buy another Kinect (or Kinect cable) to plug-in. Also having 2 separate versions for XB One and PC is just adding tedium to the whole product scheme.

Which is what's really happening here. MS have a vision, which isn't a basic games console for playing games any more. They have implemented that in their product. People will buy it or not depending on how MS's vision coordinates with the consumers' own. MS can't force people to buy a Kinect enabled XB1 any more than they could force us to buy Windows RT tablets or Zune devices (they couldn't, we didn't). Your argument just doesn't hold up in any way, shape, or form.

I think we've long established that the "basic games console" concept is dead and gone at this point, so that's not an argument. MS trying to push the Kinect to the average consumer is fine by me too, I'm just questioning as to what kind of conditions or lengths they're willing to go through in order to achieve that vision.