Bouncer is the best looking PS2 game

[Tagrineth]

DC's video chip is a PowerVR, so it doesn't render what isn't on the screen... in an extreme close-up like that, they can afford to go berserk with the LOD because frankly they don't have to render anything else.

There's no catch, really. Good graphics engine will not render what is not on the screen anyways. Software will take care about that if hardware doesn't.

Ideally, yes. But how many graphics engines are actually capable of it? Ludicrously few. Look at PC graphics. If engines already occluded everything, why the hell are PowerVR cores so mind-numbingly fast compared to similar-spec cards? My Kyro II with a pathetic 350Mtps and 2.8GB/sec can best a GeForce2 GTS with 1.8Gtps and 5.3GB/sec.

 

[V3]

(and doing them all pre-rendered would've been prohibitively expensive).

Pre-rendered them ALL

Developers or someone or rather is doing a good job at pushing real time cut scenes in games to consumer. That's a smart move I guess, but production value would be higher if all is pre-rendered.

 

[marconelly!]

Ideally, yes. But how many graphics engines are actually capable of it? Ludicrously few.

Well, I know that even the average looking games for todays standards (GTA:VC) use that technique in software, so I would be extremely surprised if those that look really good don't :\

 

[Lazy8s]

Well... first of all, the deferred rendering going on inside Dreamcast really only applies to the way it handles its own business from a hardware perspective. The logic being run to handle occlusion by the game's engine still has to be tight to ensure the engine isn't tracking needless and obscured detail. However, while software engines on all platforms implement occlusion methods to reduce the amount of unnecessary drawing/tracking, the effectiveness of this will be a function of how efficiently it was implemented... like with all things programming.

And you certainly can't take for granted that most games on all platforms implement it well. I'd go as far as to say the effectiveness of a developer's attempt to occlude non-visible areas (using well placed buildings and walls, setting the appropriate view distance, and trying to keep the bounds of what gets rendered as tight as possible) is one of the largest factors separating the performance of good free-roaming driving engines (Crazy Taxi, The Getaway {I've heard}) from weaker free-roaming driving engines (Super Runabout, GTA3).

 

[Tagrineth]

Ideally, yes. But how many graphics engines are actually capable of it? Ludicrously few.

Well, I know that even the average looking games for todays standards (GTA:VC) use that technique in software, so I would be extremely surprised if those that look really good don't :\

Yeah, of course engines try to limit what's rendered... but not a single current one successfully eliminates 100% of what isn't on screen. You can't.

There's only one engine I can think of offhand that really does do brilliant, nearly complete culling: Unreal Tournament. The old one. It's mostly a software engine so they HAD to spend a lot of time blocking out what isn't visible

 

[jvd]

Man it be nice to see the sony fanboys stop picking on the sega fan boys. Its getting really old. Resident , Metal gear solid and all of the games you guys like to compare to shenmue take place inside for at least 80-90% of the game. Name one game that has graphics better than shenmue and has a world as open and as detailed as shenmue's world is tell me the year it was made in and what system and if it even looks just as good i will never bring up shenmue again.

 

[marconelly!]

jvd, the thing is - Shenmue is not very open in the sense today's popular open games are (namely, GTA:3/VC or Morrowind). It's more like a serious of rooms, separated with long load sequences. It's just that it takes place outside, but it has room structure nevertheless. Even Jak & Daxter has more open ended structure, in the sense that it never visibly stops and loads. J&D also has a lot more polygons throwing around at twice the framerate, with very respectable (abeit cartoony) textures and very nice visual effects.

Shenmue is a very beautiful game, but technically it's been outgunned long time ago.

 

[Logan Leonhart]

IMO, it´s one of those instances of incredibly wise art. Look at SC, for example. It still looks very nice, but technically, it´s far from being the best 3D fighting game and has been outdone for quite some time. Shenmue is the same, IMO. It has nice art, and yeah, it probably maxed out the DC, but technically it is still inferior to other games, and has been for some time.
Shenmue is just a brilliant example of why art is so important to a game.

 

[randycat99]

...and to add, it's hardly the case that PS2 people are "picking on" DC people about Shenmue. Usually the case is people are talking about one thing, and then some DC person has to bring up Shenmue. If you get a lot of flack over it, it's because countless people before you have countlessly beat that dead horse, so no liberties are spared when some joker brings it up once again. If anything, it's the "...well Shenmue rulz all of U, cuz it's got dis, and dis, and dis..." digression that is getting old.

 

[Lazy8s]

Shenmue's been outgunned? I guess we shouldn't make mention of any PS2 games from now on in topics about absolute performance standards (which wouldn't include a topic that's already PS2 centric of course, like this one).

 

[jvd]

marconelly! i can't comment on jax and whatever , i will try to rent it this week. I can comment on morrowind for the computer. I'm running it on a 9700 pro and the distance before things are fogged out or a a large structure is in the way of the horizon happens often and at close range. I will not sit and say shenmue is the best looking game . I will say that no game has eclipsed it and really most games have just caught up or have just slightly passed it. While talking about ff11 you guys have to understand rpg graphics are behind the curve because of the massive amount of time it takes to make one. Also they haven't made a good final fantsy since 6 and i mean how many final fantsys can you have anyway

 

[Guest]

Shenmue does look good, even better than GTA3 imo. Then again, the game was in planning since the Saturn days. Given the time and cost invested in the game by Sega AM2, it is not surprising that Shenmue is DC best looking game.

The game is by no means perfect though. Popups, shimmering, blocky environments, blocky people, slowdowns, loadtimes, blurred textures, static lighting, draw distance and the likes.

 

[Guest]

jvd, the thing is - Shenmue is not very open in the sense today's popular open games are (namely, GTA:3/VC or Morrowind). It's more like a serious of rooms, separated with long load sequences. It's just that it takes place outside, but it has room structure nevertheless

Yes, that is exactly what i think of Shenmue too.
A glorified RE or SH game with more attention to details.

 

[TTP]

The game is by no means perfect though. Popups, shimmering, blocky environments, blocky people, slowdowns, loadtimes, blurred textures, static lighting, draw distance and the likes.

Even on Xbox you should add.

 

[PC-Engine]

What I'd like to see is a Shenmue III built from the ground up for a nextgen console then see other developers try to best it

 

[Guest]

Konami or Square or Naughty Dog or Bungie or ID and many others, could give AM2 a good challenge, given all other factors(like time and money) being equal.

Sega is not the only ones with good development teams.

 

[PC-Engine]

They'll be following not leading though

 

[Lazy8s]

PC-Engine:

They'll be following not leading though

Yup. From scaling sprites to the original, flat-shaded 3D Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing, AM2 practically wrote the book on modern 3D.

 

[Guest]

Yes, it was Sega who created modern 3D.

 

[n64]

The first game to use polygons was I,Robot, made in the 80s, by atari. Here is a link http://www.classicgaming.com/rotw/irobot.shtml