Blu-ray laser diodes in tight supply

[Arty]

From Digitimes

The yields for Blu-ray laser diodes are still low due to a high technical barrier, with only Sony and Nichia being the only suppliers, stated the paper. In addition, Sony is setting aside a major proportion of its laser diode capacity for its upcoming PS3, which may also affect the availability of its Blu-ray laser diodes, the paper said.

 

[Titanio]

These are the same diodes used in HD-DVD drives, right?

I'm glad Sony is stockpiling for PS3, on the one hand, but on the other they (Nichia & Sony) should license the tech to others to manufacture if they can't keep up with other demand.

 

[Arty]

These are the same diodes used in HD-DVD drives, right?

Not sure, I was hoping that you guys would clear that.

And yeah I posted this here because it was related to PS3, "stockpiling" sure sounds good. Hope the yeilds improve.

 

[Qroach]

it wouldn't suprise me if sony had troubles producing enough lasers just to reach the numbers they said would ship of PS3's. It's part of the risk when using extremly new unmature tech.

 

[Arty]

I found this and this after a little googling. You could have better luck than me.

 

[Angelcurio]

Why Sony and Nichia are the only manufacturers? why dont they let other companies manufacture blu-ray diodes on their own?

 

[Titanio]

Why Sony and Nichia are the only manufacturers? why dont they let other companies manufacture blu-ray diodes on their own?

One of them came up with the tech (I think it was Nichia), or this specific implementation of it at least. They patented it. Nichia and Sony have a patent-licensing agreement, but presumably other companies are not privy to such arrangements (with Nichia, who again I think invented this diode originally).

 

[Npl]

Why Sony and Nichia are the only manufacturers? why dont they let other companies manufacture blu-ray diodes on their own?

I dont think they refuse others to manufacture the laser diodes. A high technical barrier would imply its not that easy/cheap to get started. And while currently there is temporal demand because Sony+Nichia face difficulties, there aint a big market yet, so if those difficulties are sorted another manufacturer could have trouble selling enough diodes to get back its initial investment.

 

[Bobbler]

Why Sony and Nichia are the only manufacturers? why dont they let other companies manufacture blu-ray diodes on their own?

I'm not sure there is anything that says no other company can make a blue laser diode that is suitable for BR use... I imagine it has more to do with the cost of getting one made and put into production, or licensing what Nichia already has -- there isn't a whole lot of demand right now and so I don't think there are going to be a lot of companies dumping millions to make these things.

Some other companies might have a plan of their own in the works to make one but haven't gotten it ready yet -- if the only places you could get them from were Nichia and Sony mid next year still, I'd be surprised.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I found this and this after a little googling. You could have better luck than me.

AFAIKnew, there are only two largescale sources for the Gallium based blue laser diodes. One was Sony and I didn't know the name of the other source. These are the actual laser generating device, and will be needed for all blue laser device, which is HD-DVD and BluRay. the article you link to is a controller device, and not the actual diode. TTBOMK there is still only two companies producing these things. Well, a Google finds Sanyo too (http://www.photonic-products.com/products/sanyo_violet_laser_diodes/sanyo_violetblue.html)

I also found this, which is an enchanting story from the guy who invented/discovered the diodes being used.
http://www.sciencewatch.com/jan-feb2000/sw_jan-feb2000_page3.htm

Regards stockpiling for PS3, that's all very well, but what about when stockpiles disappear! If they're hard to make, supplies will be limited and PS3 production would nose-dive.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm not sure there is anything that says no other company can make a blue laser diode that is suitable for BR use... I imagine it has more to do with the cost of getting one made and put into production, or licensing what Nichia already has -- there isn't a whole lot of demand right now and so I don't think there are going to be a lot of companies dumping millions to make these things.

Reading my Nichia article linked above, if the manufacturing process of the GaN crystals is patented, the teo-flow process, it may be impossible for anyone not licensing the tech to grow useable crystals. Although I don't know how patenting of such tech limits production in some parts of the world. There is no international, worldwide patent. There are standards for wide (40+ countries IIRC) patents, but nations outside of that need to be negotiated individually. Thus you may find in the Phillipines or Madagasca, there's no valid patent, and anyone there can use the two-flow method without breaching any laws. It may be that other economic reasons prohibit such maneouvres though.

 

[Angelcurio]

Sorry, i didnt try to say that they dont let other companies manufacture the blue diodes, its just that sometimes i cant express myself really well in english.

My real question was that why other companies dont manufacture those chips on their own, since with only two manufactures it would be a big bottleneck to supply those chips to all the blu-ray players manufacturers.

But as you all said, since the limitation is technical, looks like is not too easy to make good diodes until the perfectionate they technology, or is not too affordable to make those crystals grow.

AFAIKnew, there are only two largescale sources for the Gallium based blue laser diodes. One was Sony and I didn't know the name of the other source. These are the actual laser generating device, and will be needed for all blue laser device, which is HD-DVD and BluRay.

If there are only two largescale sources for blue laser diodes, would that imply that Sony also manufacture blue laser diodes for Toshiba (HD-DVD)?

 

[TrungGap]

These are the same diodes used in HD-DVD drives, right?

Yes and no. Matsushita, Toshiba and NEC also manfacture these blue laser diodes. Off topic, Boston U, sued Nichia and have retained the IP for synthesizing gallium nitride. They are free to sublicense to anyone. And according to this report, they are sublicensing the IP to Nichia.

http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/2002/12-13/bluelight.htm

I'm glad Sony is stockpiling for PS3, on the one hand, but on the other they (Nichia & Sony) should license the tech to others to manufacture if they can't keep up with other demand.

I think the original poster left out an important passage:

Sony is currently the major supplier of laser diodes for Royal Philips Electronics, BenQ and Lite-on IT, the paper indicated.

Which means Sony's blue laser diodes are in short supply. And does not indicate the supply level of diodes as a whole.

 

[Titanio]

It's good to hear others are manufacturing them then, I'm not sure why it keeps being reported otherwise.

There's two prongs to the complaint though - Sony setting aside diodes for PS3, and diode yields being low, which seems to be a more general problem.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes and no. Matsushita, Toshiba and NEC also manfacture these blue laser diodes. Off topic, Boston U, sued Nichia and have retained the IP for synthesizing gallium nitride. They are free to sublicense to anyone. And according to this report, they are sublicensing the IP to Nichia.

http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/2002/12-13/bluelight.htm

That's pretty crappy, for the guy at Nichia. They did invent it, and got the first working blue LED, but they were beaten to the patent office by a few months it seems on the production process. When you have multiple companies working towards the same goals, coincidental development is bound to happen, and then you find the rug is pulled from under and all that investment and success counts for nothing. That must make working in these fields a massive disappointment, when hard earned successes count for nothing.

 

[Urian]

In Sony Vaio series with BluRay the drive is from Matsushita.

Is posible that a part of PS3 are going to have a drive by Sony and the other part to have a Drive by Matsushita or other manufacturer?

 

[one]

That's pretty crappy, for the guy at Nichia. They did invent it, and got the first working blue LED, but they were beaten to the patent office by a few months it seems on the production process. When you have multiple companies working towards the same goals, coincidental development is bound to happen, and then you find the rug is pulled from under and all that investment and success counts for nothing. That must make working in these fields a massive disappointment, when hard earned successes count for nothing.

The interesting thing is, the Nichia guy (Shuji Nakamura, now a USCB professor), sued Nichia for the fair share of the invention.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000A1926-0EB5-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21&pageNumber=1&catID=4
Boston University licensed a particular lab-level blue-laser related patent to Cree, a competitor company against Nichia, and Nakamura was hired by Cree. After Nichia sued Cree, Cree and Nakamura sued Nichia. Those suits are all settled down today.
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010824S0051
http://www.compoundsemi.com/documents/articles/news/2361.html

Apparently what's important today is the mass production technology for those LED and Nichia still holds the advantage. Nichia even abandoned the 404 patent that was seen as essential to blue-laser LED, which means what Nakamura invented is not important any more for blue-laser LED production.
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/press/11695

The fact is that the invention covered by the '404 Patent only enabled Nichia Corporation to catch up with the level of technology already developed by others, and because of various problems involved in it Nichia Corporation ceased using it completely during the first-half of 1997, replacing it by a better technology invented by its other employees.

Although the '404 Patent was included in many patents Nichia Corporation cross-licensed to a number of LED manufactures in and after 2002, none of those manufactures has ever practiced it.

 

[_xxx_]

Ricoh have invented a new tech which can be used for all types of media including BluRay and HDDVD, there's a topic about that somewhere in the 3D forums.

On topic: there is no shortage there, plenty of manufacturers producing the stuff. It's just still expensive.

 

[Qroach]

On topic: there is no shortage there, plenty of manufacturers producing the stuff. It's just still expensive.

Just becuase there's lots of people capable of manufacturing them doesn't mean there isn't a shortage currently. Who knows how long a shortage will last, or what problems they are encoutering.

 

[_xxx_]

All the "problems" you hear about are just rumors. It's the same as saying "just because the grass is green doesn't mean it couldn't be blue sometimes", no merrit whatsoever.