Are you ready

[Joe DeFuria]

Um...

Who's flaming nVidia? I see some flaming of nVidia marketing which is a bit different.

If Ati came out with some great products and began to dominate the industry through hard work and innovation..

You seem to imply that ATI doesn't have great products, and these products aren't the result of hard work?!

Oddly, I'd say the past few months is an exact illustration of your "if" statement. (No, I'm not saying that ATI is dominating the industry, just that ATI is currently in a dominant position as far as product line up goes.)

Most of us have great respect for nVidia's products, as well as ATI's products.

Most of us have little respect for marketing, no matter who its from. It's simply that when one company actually has products on the market (or at least officially announced), it doesn't give too much room to criticize their PR, nor does it give too much reason for ATI to have any outlandish PR stunts. They can let the products pretty much speak for themselves. This happens to be ATI's position at the moment.

On the other hand, with nVidia being late, they are pretty much by definition forced to rev up the Hype, with little substance. ATI would do the same in their position.

 

[Reverend]

Can't believe you guys are criticizing sound business strategies...

I personally hope we just don't need to have to keep "getting ready" for a long time!

 

[Evildeus]

Most of us have great respect for nVidia's products, as well as ATI's products.

Most of us have little respect for marketing, no matter who its from

Really? Well, if i have a look at the let say last year thread, are you sure it's balanced? Not so sure ....

 

[Reverend]

On the other hand, with nVidia being late, they are pretty much by definition forced to rev up the Hype, with little substance.

OY! Don't have my name in the same sentence as "hype"!

 

[no_way]

OY! Don't have my name in the same sentence as "hype"!

What does Bitboyz have to do with all this ? leave then alone 8)

 

[McElvis]

Gosh! Why do so many people on here flame on Nvidia so bad. If Ati came out with some great products and began to dominate the industry through hard work and innovation, would you hate them too? Personally I think its kinda funny because I love competition (it drive the prices down) but my gosh people, is it really such a bad thing to make really good graphics chips? Can't wait till Comdex!!!!

ATI have come out with great products and began to dominate the industry through hard work and innovation...

 

[RussSchultz]

Gosh! Why do so many people on here flame on Nvidia so bad. If Ati came out with some great products and began to dominate the industry through hard work and innovation, would you hate them too? Personally I think its kinda funny because I love competition (it drive the prices down) but my gosh people, is it really such a bad thing to make really good graphics chips? Can't wait till Comdex!!!!

ATI have come out with great products and began to dominate the industry through hard work and innovation...

Fanboyism still stinks, regardless of who's dominating who.

 

[jb]

Gosh! Why do so many people on here flame on Nvidia so bad. If Ati came out with some great products and began to dominate the industry through hard work and innovation, would you hate them too? Personally I think its kinda funny because I love competition (it drive the prices down) but my gosh people, is it really such a bad thing to make really good graphics chips? Can't wait till Comdex!!!!

Ohh I will take a crack at it. Most people seem to route for the underdog. Here NV has been leading for a long time. People want to see a new "king" for awhile. When the GF4 came out I hardly even looked at the GF4 Ti4600 score only becuase I new they would be faster than any thing else. Kind of like been there done that. If you look back at when nV was starting to gain ground on 3DFX you see the same thing. Back then nV/3DFX products were fairly simular (the each were better at different things) but a lot of people jumped onto the nV bandwagon tried of hearing 3DFX and how the were the gods back then. Again I am sure not every one does this but I like to see a change once in awhile..

Also nV in the past has had some really strong PR tatics. While those are things that all big companies do in the business world it still does not set well with some people (like that Kyro PDF that was an "Internal sales" document). So if you go out and be really agressive with marketing you dont normally win more fans.

NV Is a great company. I have enjoyed their products and they have worked very well for me. And they have helped to increase my game play experince. I buy on what I need to get done, the cost and what solution is out there. Not by brand. However I still will hold the right to "ding" any comapny if I feel its justified

 

[LeStoffer]

now, now let's calm down for a second, okay?

There is really no reason at all to think that nVidia is dropping the ball or going the 3dfx route. They have a major hickup with the .13 process but will be back and running just fine when they finally release the Nv3x architectures.

The major change is that ATI have decided to follow the business plan where you try to get the best possible high end part out and then filter the product down to the mainstream. And it seems that they have executed very, very well on the plan with the 9700/9500 parts.

I remember a nVidia senior stating recently that there is only really two companies with the world class talent to drive this business. He didn't mention ATI - but it was clearly them he had in mind (sorry Kristof and 3dlabs!).

 

[McElvis]

Gosh! Why do so many people on here flame on Nvidia so bad. If Ati came out with some great products and began to dominate the industry through hard work and innovation, would you hate them too? Personally I think its kinda funny because I love competition (it drive the prices down) but my gosh people, is it really such a bad thing to make really good graphics chips? Can't wait till Comdex!!!!

ATI have come out with great products and began to dominate the industry through hard work and innovation...

Fanboyism still stinks, regardless of who's dominating who.

That's true, there's no denying that.

 

[Entropy]

Most of us have great respect for nVidia's products, as well as ATI's products.

Most of us have little respect for marketing, no matter who its from

Really? Well, if i have a look at the let say last year thread, are you sure it's balanced? Not so sure ....

Hmm. I've been reading Joes posts for a long while, and honestly couldn't say for sure if he favoured nVidia or ATI. So I decided to have a look, since my memory faltered, and made a search for his posts.
After wading through Joe DeFuria posts from way back, the only thing I can state with authority about which way he swings is that he really seems to want to cut Teasys dick off.

Entropy

 

[Mariner]

And he really, really, likes arguing - oh, sorry, discussing the minutiae of various viewpoints!

Please note the minutiae here has nothing to do with any of Teasy's parts.

 

[MiNdVelocity]

Anyone think Nvidia might be intentionally putting out delayed mass production rumors in an attempt to make Ati relax a little bit before Christmas? Its unlikely but possible I guess and clever on Nvidia's part.

 

[Grall]

Mindvelocity:

Interesting thought, but I would think data on production is available widely enough in the industry (either in the way of rumors-solid-enough-to-be-fact or *cough* industrial espionage) for such desinformation to not work. After all, both ATI and NV use the same fab.

Anyway, what I'd like to know is wether it's correct to lay the blame for NV30s delays solidly at the feet of TMSC, or if there indeed were engineering/development difficulties along the way that also matters. After all, TMSC have apparantly been producing stuff at .13u for some months now. Right now everybody simply keeps blaming the fab as if that's all that matters...


*G*

 

[Evildeus]

Most of us have great respect for nVidia's products, as well as ATI's products.

Most of us have little respect for marketing, no matter who its from

Really? Well, if i have a look at the let say last year thread, are you sure it's balanced? Not so sure ....

Hmm. I've been reading Joes posts for a long while, and honestly couldn't say for sure if he favoured nVidia or ATI. So I decided to have a look, since my memory faltered, and made a search for his posts.
After wading through Joe DeFuria posts from way back, the only thing I can state with authority about which way he swings is that he really seems to want to cut Teasys dick off.

Entropy

I didn't know that when Joe is talking about himself he uses "us" . I was talking of this board, not of Joe ... Nevermind

 

[Sharkfood]

I remember NVidia's last big hype marketing ploy.. it fizzled into nothingness.

Remember that silly font and all the hype that turned out to be nothing more than the Werewolf demo for GF4? lol. I remember calling it exactly as it transpired. We were all guessing what the big "Coming soon.." ominous thing was.. just a tech demo for the GF4.

Nothing wrong with a big marketing hype if what's being hyped is worth it. But, much like the moral of the childhood story, "The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf", valuable lessons can be learned.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Anyway, what I'd like to know is wether it's correct to lay the blame for NV30s delays solidly at the feet of TMSC...

Well, ultimately, the blame is put on nVidia. No matter what the technical reason for the delay, nVidia is ultimately responsible for making the decisions concerning NV30 production, including what process to build it on.

That being said, all indications are that the technical reason is indeed that TSMCs 0.13 process is not mature enough to handle a 100+ million transistor graphics chip. TSMC has been producing 0.13 parts for some time, but nothing on the order of complexity similar to the latest graphics chips.

 

[MiNdVelocity]

Ok, everyone lets flame Nvidia for pushing the limits of modern chip fabrication technology. They should be ashamed for trying to bring us consumers cutting edge graphics in such a short amount of time. Why can 't they just be more like Ati and bring us chips with off the shelf tech!!! Curse Nvidia for being innovative!!! Down with Nvidia!!!

 

[martrox]

Ok, everyone lets flame Nvidia for pushing the limits of modern chip fabrication technology. They should be ashamed for trying to bring us consumers cutting edge graphics in such a short amount of time. Why can 't they just be more like Ati and bring us chips with off the shelf tech!!! Curse Nvidia for being innovative!!! Down with Nvidia!!!

Jeez, that opinion surely helps no one (another fanperson rant!). Fact is that nVidia has finally bit off more than it could chew here. Yes, they have always pushed new tech over the tried & true, and up till now, it has paid off hansomely. Now it's come around and bit them in the posterior. Live by the sword, die by the sword. No one is flaming nVidia because they push technology. Many ARE flaming them for missing this product introduction, and being upstaged by ATI. AND FOR LYING (well, at least for telling halftruths, for which they are infamous!) The reality is that no one person or no company is ever perfect... and this now includes nVidia.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Ok, everyone lets flame Nvidia for pushing the limits of modern chip fabrication technology.

?!?

Who's FLAMING nVIDIA!?

Can't anyone hold a company to simply be held RESPONSIBLE for their decisions, without accused of flaming them?