Any Iain Banks fans here?

[London Geezer]

I'm halfway through one of his sci-fi books, Excession, and i must say i don't know what to think.

The book is either the hardest to read and most visionary book i've read, or just plain bad. Still not too sure.

It's just so slow and convoluted (sp?) and needlessly complicated to read i sometimes just choose the second option. Sometimes it has some great moments and i love how completely out of this universe it is, from almost immortal people to people who become "Gods" to machines AI basically controlling everything, to the fact that those AI Minds are actually quite funny and human-like, with the only difference that they can do pretty much anything.

Don't know, it's never taken me this long to read a boot, it's about 400 pages, i'm only halfway through it and i started it at least a month and a half ago... I'll definately finish it if it kills me, but i just wanted to know if anyone around read this book or others from Iain Banks... What do u think?

 

[Simon F]

I'm halfway through one of his sci-fi books, Excession, and i must say i don't know what to think.

You mean "Iain M Banks" his Sci-Fi alter ego.

I've read a few and usually have enjoyed them (my favourite being "The Player of Games") and I've also read his non-sci-fi (i.e. by Ian no M Banks) "The Wasp Factory" which was, err, strange but entertaining.

 

[London Geezer]

You mean "Iain M Banks" his Sci-Fi alter ego.

I've read a few and usually have enjoyed them (my favourite being "The Player of Games") and I've also read his non-sci-fi (i.e. by Ian no M Banks) "The Wasp Factory" which was, err, strange but entertaining.

Yeah i was interested in The Player of Games, but having read Excession (trying at least) i've been put off a little bit.
Love the ideas, just not sure about the way he puts them in words. LOTS of words i must say.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I'm halfway through one of his sci-fi books, Excession, and i must say i don't know what to think.

The book is either the hardest to read and most visionary book i've read, or just plain bad. Still not too sure.

It's just so slow and convoluted (sp?) and needlessly complicated to read i sometimes just choose the second option. Sometimes it has some great moments and i love how completely out of this universe it is, from almost immortal people to people who become "Gods" to machines AI basically controlling everything, to the fact that those AI Minds are actually quite funny and human-like, with the only difference that they can do pretty much anything.

Don't know, it's never taken me this long to read a boot, it's about 400 pages, i'm only halfway through it and i started it at least a month and a half ago... I'll definately finish it if it kills me, but i just wanted to know if anyone around read this book or others from Iain Banks... What do u think?

Excession is one of Banks' more wordy "Culture" books. It does have a few stunning sequences, like the escape of the "Sleeper Service", and it fleshes out the Culture civilization some more, but it's mostly setting everything up for the climax (which you may not find satisfying), along with the backstory of Sleeper Service's special passenger.

In fact, I think that Banks' other books (including his non-Culture SF books) are easier to read and more compelling than Excession. I think Excession's big problem is that the story moves forwards, but not a lot happens except for these few big scenes.

If you haven't read the other Culture books, you'll find them more accessable with more of a driving narrative. In fact, one of the best things about Banks' Culture novels is that full and complete universe he fleshes out. The books are interesting to read because you find out more about the Culture and what they do.

Don't be put off his other SF books, they generally are a better, more exciting read, though reading them in the order they were written might help.

 

[Mariner]

I'm halfway through one of his sci-fi books, Excession, and i must say i don't know what to think.

If you think that one's a difficult read, you ought to try Feersum Endjinn! Every other chapter in that one is written phonetically and it's a right sod to read. Still enjoyable though.

I enjoyed Excession myself but as others have mentioned The Player of Games is an easier read. Consider Phlebas and Look to Windward are two other good choices.

 

[Gerry]

If you think that one's a difficult read, you ought to try Feersum Endjinn! Every other chapter in that one is written phonetically and it's a right sod to read. Still enjoyable though.

I enjoyed Excession myself but as others have mentioned The Player of Games is an easier read. Consider Phlebas and Look to Windward are two other good choices.

Haha! Was going to mention that one. Recently re-read it, and it's certainly easier to read through the second time.

The Player of Games and Use of Weapons are probably my favourites.

 

[London Geezer]

Excession is one of Banks' more wordy "Culture" books. It does have a few stunning sequences, like the escape of the "Sleeper Service", and it fleshes out the Culture civilization some more, but it's mostly setting everything up for the climax (which you may not find satisfying), along with the backstory of Sleeper Service's special passenger.

In fact, I think that Banks' other books (including his non-Culture SF books) are easier to read and more compelling than Excession. I think Excession's big problem is that the story moves forwards, but not a lot happens except for these few big scenes.

If you haven't read the other Culture books, you'll find them more accessable with more of a driving narrative. In fact, one of the best things about Banks' Culture novels is that full and complete universe he fleshes out. The books are interesting to read because you find out more about the Culture and what they do.

Don't be put off his other SF books, they generally are a better, more exciting read, though reading them in the order they were written might help.

Thanks (as always) BZB.

Where can i find a list of Culture books he has written, in the right order? I think the only thing keeping my interest in the whole Culture universe and how totally out of my brain it is. I mean when i read a paragraph in the book at first i went "After xx hundred years people can choose whether they can live forever, be integrated in an AI system or just die..... RIIIIIIGHT...."
But then you kinda get used to the utter size of the ideas and scope and it's kinda interesting...

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Thanks (as always) BZB.

Where can i find a list of Culture books he has written, in the right order? I think the only thing keeping my interest in the whole Culture universe and how totally out of my brain it is. I mean when i read a paragraph in the book at first i went "After xx hundred years people can choose whether they can live forever, be integrated in an AI system or just die..... RIIIIIIGHT...."
But then you kinda get used to the utter size of the ideas and scope and it's kinda interesting...

http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/ though I don't think they list them all in order here. "State Of The Art" is short stories, and is probably the weakest. There is also a note here from Banks on the Culture

IIRC, the order should be Consider Phleabas, Player Of Games, Use Of Weapons, Excession, State Of The Art.

Edit: missed one out: Look To Windward comes at the end.

Although not Culture, I can heartily recommend "The Algebraist" and "Against A Dark Background".

 

[London Geezer]

http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/ though I don't think they list them all in order here. "State Of The Art" is short stories, and is probably the weakest. There is also a note here from Banks on the Culture

IIRC, the order should be Consider Phleabas, Player Of Games, Use Of Weapons, Excession, State Of The Art.

Although not Culture, I can heartily recommend "The Algebraist" and "Against A Dark Background".

Oh so it's only 4 or so Culture books... cool i might have to eat them up one by one...

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Oh so it's only 4 or so Culture books... cool i might have to eat them up one by one...

Check my edit - "Look To Windward" is missing off that webpage, and it should go at the end of the list if my memory doesn't fail me (I'm not going to pull them off the shelf to check the dates on them ).

 

[Snyder]

I think Excession's big problem is that the story moves forwards, but not a lot happens except for these few big scenes.

I've only read Feersum Endjinn from Banks, but IMO it has exactly the same problem.
Banks creates a fascinating universe and an has intriguing writing style, but it feels like he sometimes is at a loss with what to do with this universe.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I've only read Feersum Endjinn from Banks, but IMO it has exactly the same problem.
Banks creates a fascinating universe and an has intriguing writing style, but it feels like he sometimes is at a loss with what to do with this universe.

Fersum Endjinn is the one I. M. Banks book I haven't read. I like to enjoy my books, not struggle to read the text.

 

[Mariner]

Oh so it's only 4 or so Culture books... cool i might have to eat them up one by one...

Look to Windward is also a Culture book. Inversions is almost one in as far as one of the characters apparently being from the Culture but this is never really mentioned! Use of Weapons is good but I'd read Consider Phlebas and The Player of Games before these so you get a feel for the Culture first.

 

[Mariner]

I actually rather enjoyed Feersum Endjinn once I'd managed to get my head around the language. The chapters which Bascule narrates in the first person are tough to read but his turn of phrase is quite amusing and interesting. He's described as a character whose mind works in an usual way and this explains the phonetic spelling although a bit of 'cool' literary posing on the part of the author is also involved.

Certainly worth a go and I've read many, many books which were more painful to read albeit because of content rather than writing style!

 

[Babel-17]

http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/ though I don't think they list them all in order here. "State Of The Art" is short stories, and is probably the weakest. There is also a note here from Banks on the Culture

IIRC, the order should be Consider Phleabas, Player Of Games, Use Of Weapons, Excession, State Of The Art.

Edit: missed one out: Look To Windward comes at the end.

Although not Culture, I can heartily recommend "The Algebraist" and "Against A Dark Background".

A perfect summation!

I'm a huge fan of Against a Dark Background, my opinion might be unique in so far as I think that not only do the professional critics not rate it high enough I believe Banks himself doesn't fully appreciate how great a work it is.

Don't ask me to explain that.

Close as I could come would be to speculate that Banks was pouring more creativity into it than he can remember.

For me, the book works on so many levels. It has the elements for a riotous farce in some sections and yet those chapters end grimly. The "curse" that inflicts their society affects everything.

Btw, this was the novel that inspired the developers of Halo.

Lol, I once posted several pages worth of speculation on this book that came to naught.

Cliff Notes: I opined that the Lazy Guns were in fact some extremely special purpose AI's sent by the Culture. Needless to say the final word of Banks on the matter, it's not a Culture novel, shot that idea down.

But they were products of Halo, IIRC, and that works even better ...... I see Halo as being indicative of their own nascent Culture. But due to their unique circumstances, their curse if you will, they were to be denied their future. The Lazy Guns are Halo's sterile offspring, denied the greatness of Bank's Culture novels, and knowing this, and having a motivation we can only guess at.

Has anyone read the epilogue? It's good though in my mind I always remember the novel as ending without that section.

http://www.culturelist.org/cdr/article.cfm?id=142

In my minds eye I see her as striving to achieve the impossible and delivering on the call to greatness of her grandfather.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

A perfect summation!

I'm a huge fan of Against a Dark Background, my opinion might be unique in so far as I think that not only do the professional critics not rate it high enough I believe Banks himself doesn't fully appreciate how great a work it is.

It's a very good book, and "almost-Culture". Other authors such as Ken MacLeod have done the same thing by setting books in the same universe, but off in another isolated place so they can have a whole new set of stories. (Engines of Light as opposed to Fall Revolution). I think because the Culture can do just about anything, AADB allowed Banks to do away with that deus ex machina element that can be used (and is used a lot by Peter F. Hamilton) to finish up the story.

Btw, this was the novel that inspired the developers of Halo.

Really? The whole concept of Halo is so Larry Niven's Ringworld, I'm surprised he didn't sue.

Has anyone read the epilogue? It's good though in my mind I always remember the novel as ending without that section.

http://www.culturelist.org/cdr/article.cfm?id=142

In my minds eye I see her as striving to achieve the impossible and delivering on the call to greatness of her grandfather.

Thanks for that, I've printed it out and put it in the back of my copy of AADB. As it's by Banks himself, I guess it has to be considered canon and what he wanted the story to be, but I'm not sure it really adds anything.


[SPOILER DOWN BELOW!!]
































It's a happier ending that shows Sharrow has more of a future despite everyone she loves being killed because of her, but I'm not convinced it's better than the ambiguous ending of her riding off into the sunset with everyone and everything dead behind her.

 

[Babel-17]

I agree regarding the endings.

The apocalyptic tone of the original leaves more room for imagining what would follow.

She didn't go through all that for a dead-ending society, like her grandfather, she is going to make a major impact.






Spoiler below ........


















My memory is shot, did her son survive the assassination?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I agree regarding the endings.

The apocalyptic tone of the original leaves more room for imagining what would follow.

She didn't go through all that for a dead-ending society, like her grandfather, she is going to make a major impact.






Spoiler below ........


















My memory is shot, did her son survive the assassination?

[More spoilerage]


















IIRC Sharrow kills him.

 

[Babel-17]

eek, that I have to check out. Thanks!

Edit: Hmmm, it seems we're left not knowing for certain ........... Spoiler below.

She looked from the huge heavy face of the bandamyion up to his eyes. Oh yes, the crystal virus he claimed he'd had implanted in himself for that pre-prepared act of final petulance. She didn't know if Geis was telling the truth about that or not, but it sounded psychotic enough to be part of his repertoire.
And Girmeyn. Girmeyn now in one of Geis's space habitats. Even if he wasn't her son, how could she kill him?
Easily, she thought, standing there with her feet sinking into the watery sand and the stinking breeze blowing about her. All of them, all of it; easily.
How many tyrants had begun by being charming, beguiling, attractive? Still, they all ended up the same.

That argues for his death but leaves enough wiggle room. I can't find anything after that passage that indicates Geis's threat was carried out. So, unless I'm wrong, I can still nurture some happy thoughts regarding that. I need to carefully re-read the end though.

 

[Diplo]

I've read all his 'normal' novels, but not any of his sci-fi ones. Then again, some of his normal ones are pretty weird I also met him once at a book signing - he's a very good speaker and very droll. He's not a bad musician, either. His last book, 'Dead Air', is a very perceptive take on modern times as well as being a damn good thriller.