Any Iain Banks fans here?

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I've read all his 'normal' novels, but not any of his sci-fi ones. Then again, some of his normal ones are pretty weird I also met him once at a book signing - he's a very good speaker and very droll. He's not a bad musician, either. His last book, 'Dead Air', is a very perceptive take on modern times as well as being a damn good thriller.

IMO, Banks began the current British new wave of SF. He's had as much impact as William Gibson with cyberpunk. You can trace a line from Banks to pretty much all the British authors I named at the beginning of this thread. He made clever, thoughtful, exciting, well written SF in fashion again.

If you've only read Iain Banks, and not his SF books as Iain M. Banks, you've really missed what I think is the better part of his work.

 

[nutball]

I've read a few of his Culture books (Excession and Use of Weapons). Honestly to me they were both really a missed opportunity. I like the idea behind his Culture, it smacks of the sort of back-story that the Asimov Foundation novels had, but really I can't stand Bank's style.

In both books he spends 99.9% of the pages building up to a climax ... which then turns out to be a) entirely predictable and b) over in a few seconds. It's the literary equivalent of a whole evening of serious foreplay followed by premature ejaculation!

I mean come on if you're going to spend 700 pages building up a Galactic-scale final armageddon-style show-down between the Good Guys and the Bad Guys, you can't resolve it with a "and he pressed the fire button and all the baddies died and everyone lived happily ever after. The End". Not if you want me to buy more of your books you can't Mr Banks!

 

[London Geezer]

In both books he spends 99.9% of the pages building up to a climax ... which then turns out to be a) entirely predictable and b) over in a few seconds. It's the literary equivalent of a whole evening of serious foreplay followed by premature ejaculation!

...Er... Am i the only one to get a feeling you're talking from experience?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I've read a few of his Culture books (Excession and Use of Weapons). Honestly to me they were both really a missed opportunity. I like the idea behind his Culture, it smacks of the sort of back-story that the Asimov Foundation novels had, but really I can't stand Bank's style.

You have named probably the two slowest (in terms of plot) Culture books, where you are just as invested in finding out what brought the characters to be what they are as much as the action plotline. One of Banks main features is that he fills out an intereresting, complete background canvas to his stories. A lot of why you read the Culture books is to find out more about the Culture, who they are, what they do, and why they do it, not just the narrative of the plot.

Not everyone has to like Banks, but his Culture background has certainly become a marker in British SF, and it seems to have placed a flag for a rich background vista in the same way as Frank Herbert's Dune did.

 

[Diplo]

If you've only read Iain Banks, and not his SF books as Iain M. Banks, you've really missed what I think is the better part of his work.

I don't generally read much SF anymore (though I've read most of the 'classics' in the past - Asimov, Bradbury, Dick, Elison etc.) I still read J.G.Ballard, though a lot of his stuff is no longer strictly SF at all. However, I have been meaning to read some of Bank's work, I just don't know where to start. I'm kinda put-off by these massive SF 'trilogies' (like 'Foundation') because a) they never seem to stay trilogies and b) you get sucked in and never read anything else However, if you can recommend one 'stand-alone' SF book by Bank's I'll likely check it out.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I don't generally read much SF anymore (though I've read most of the 'classics' in the past - Asimov, Bradbury, Dick, Elison etc.) I still read J.G.Ballard, though a lot of his stuff is no longer strictly SF at all. However, I have been meaning to read some of Bank's work, I just don't know where to start. I'm kinda put-off by these massive SF 'trilogies' (like 'Foundation') because a) they never seem to stay trilogies and b) you get sucked in and never read anything else However, if you can recommend one 'stand-alone' SF book by Bank's I'll likely check it out.

Hmm. I'd go for "Against A Dark Background", which is not a Culture book. "Consider Phleabas" if you want a little bit of a Culture Book. "The Algebraest" is also a good standalone, non-Culture book.

Even Banks' Culture books are really standalone, although familiarity and chronological order gives you a bit of a better background on what he's trying to achieve with the Culture. Kind of like Niven's "Known Space" series, they sort of interrelate in that they all take place in the same universe, but are otherwise not really linked in the same way as one story that is several volumes long.

If you want to read more up-to-date SF, I can highly reccommend Richard Morgan's "Altered Carbon" and the follow on "Broken Angels". Also Alistair Reynolds' very hard SF "Revelation Space".

 

[London Geezer]

How could i forget! The whole point in opening this thread was to ask...

How do you say Iain? Like Ian? or Ia-in? ... Err...

 

[Mariner]

How could i forget! The whole point in opening this thread was to ask...

How do you say Iain? Like Ian? or Ia-in? ... Err...

The usual way - Ian.

I notice that BZB recommends Richard Morgan's books and they are good but extremely violent indeed! The Reynolds books are good too my favourite being "Chasm City".

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

The usual way - Ian.

I notice that BZB recommends Richard Morgan's books and they are good but extremely violent indeed! The Reynolds books are good too my favourite being "Chasm City".

Hey, Morgan's books are not that bad, except for one or two key scenes. I think it's because in Morgan's books the protagonist is either in a warzone or has people trying to kill them, so it can get a bit bloody. I have to say that I currently look forward to Richard Morgan's books more than anyone other author.

The one caveat with most of Reynolds' books (apart from "Pushing Ice" and "Century Rain") is that they actually link quite closely and some of them follow a common plot, so they really should be read in order to get the most out of them.

 

[Gerry]

The one caveat with most of Reynolds' books (apart from "Pushing Ice" and "Century Rain") is that they actually link quite closely and some of them follow a common plot, so they really should be read in order to get the most out of them.

Just read Pushing Ice and Century Rain back to back (well almost finished CR anyway). I think Century Rain is the better book, very good indeed.

Morgan is good as well. Market Forces was a bit strange though, and very violent. He does seem to have a penchant for shoving at least a couple of sex scenes in his books as well.

Not quite the same genre, but China Mieville is worth a read as well, especially "The Scar". Oh and Neal Asher ain't half bad either.

 

[Babel-17]

Imo The Player of Games perhaps has the fastest pacing. Any sci-fi reader could pick that up and quickly devour it.

Hey, I just realized we've made no mention of The Culture Ships and their names.

Lol, Culture ships choose their own names after they've been created and as you'd expect are somewhat indicative of their personalities.

The Culture's nomenclature for their warships is pretty amusing too.

A warship named "Sorry It Had To Come To This" makes me smile.

I'll edit this post with a link should I aquire one quickly.

Edit: Googling this was easy.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/~mjhuur1/projects/banks/ships.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=Banks+Culture+ships+names&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

ROU Rapid Offensive Unit classes: Abominator, Torturer, Gangster, Inquisitor, Killer, Psychopath, Thug, Scree (LCU) demilitarized Rapid Offensive Unit [Renamed "very fast picket" in Weapons]

P.S. For a couple of names it helps to know that one of the elder minds/ships once made the chiding comment that some of the names chosen showed a deplorable lack of gravitas. Lol, that had effect akin to that of flame-bait.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Just read Pushing Ice and Century Rain back to back (well almost finished CR anyway). I think Century Rain is the better book, very good indeed.

I actually preferred "Pushing Ice". All the Paris stuff in CR wasn't really SF IMO.

Morgan is good as well. Market Forces was a bit strange though, and very violent. He does seem to have a penchant for shoving at least a couple of sex scenes in his books as well.

Nothing wrong with sex in books. Sex and love is quite a motivating, driving force in people, so it would also be motivation for believable characters. In "Altered Carbon", Kovacs is being manipulated with sex by one female character which he uses to turn the tables on her. Another character who should be his enemy ends up helping him because of the relationship she had with the sleeve he is wearing, and although Kovacs eventually finds it's only chemistry, he goes out of his way to give her back the man she loves when he leaves.

I liked "Market Forces". I wasn't sure where it was going in the beginning, but the second half of it really becomes a tour de force - I couldn't put it down to see where the next betrayal would come from. The combat in and around London is quite strange to read as I know all these places and drive on those roads. Given that it's a story about mercenary executive future traders who have to kill their bosses and competitors in road based combat, I doubt there's anyway he could have kept sex and violence out of the story. It would be like trying to write a book about City market traders and not have any sex, drugs or money involved.

Not quite the same genre, but China Mieville is worth a read as well, especially "The Scar". Oh and Neal Asher ain't half bad either.

I quite like Neal Asher, but some of his books seem to be a little soft. Some like "Cowl" and some of the Cormac books have lots of interesting ideas and clever plots, but the characters seem to be quite two dimensional and cartoony compared to some of his other books ("Skinner", "Brass Man").

Haven't read any Melville, though he's been getting a lot of write-ups recently. When push came to shove, I picked up Tony Ballanyne and Charles Stross instead.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Hey, I just realized we've made no mention of The Culture Ships and their names.

Lol, Culture ships choose their own names after they've been created and as you'd expect are somewhat indicative of their personalities.

The Culture's nomenclature for their warships is pretty amusing too.

Banks did this so well. The way the super powerful AI Minds run everything, but they still need people to give them interesting things to do. The way the ships and drones have their own personalities and get to choose their own idiosyncratic names. The way the Minds can run everything from a combat drone or knife missle to a Ringworld like solar orbital habitat, and explains how the people get to be able to do what they want to do.

 

[Gerry]

Nothing wrong with sex in books. Sex and love is quite a motivating, driving force in people, so it would also be motivation for believable characters. In "Altered Carbon", Kovacs is being manipulated with sex by one female character which he uses to turn the tables on her. Another character who should be his enemy ends up helping him because of the relationship she had with the sleeve he is wearing, and although Kovacs eventually finds it's only chemistry, he goes out of his way to give her back the man she loves when he leaves.

True. I just get the feeling however that Morgan is being a bit gratuitous at times; inserting a bonking scene just to keep the attention of the teenagers from flagging. Nothing wrong with a bit of flesh of course, in moderation.

I quite like Neal Asher, but some of his books seem to be a little soft. Some like "Cowl" and some of the Cormac books have lots of interesting ideas and clever plots, but the characters seem to be quite two dimensional and cartoony compared to some of his other books ("Skinner", "Brass Man").

Wasn't keen on Cowl myself. As you say, interesting ideas but didn't quite work for me. Not sure whether I've got round to Brass Man yet.

Haven't read any Melville, though he's been getting a lot of write-ups recently. When push came to shove, I picked up Tony Ballanyne and Charles Stross instead.

Not read either of these two yet. Must have a look to see what they're about.

 

[[maven]]

I don't remember Banks as particularly hard of a read (or particularly spaced out), but then I read a lot of science fiction. The worst bit is always re-learning invented terminology when going from author to author.
Also, I can second the recommendations for
- Alastair Reynolds (Revelation Space is stand out, but the following 2 books are a good read as well),
- Richard Morgan's Takeshi Kovacs novels (which take an interesting idea and have good action, but I am not convinced the "reality" he's describing is water-tight; it's in a way very much pulp-fiction).

To that list I would add
- Peter F. Hamilton's Night's Dawn Trilogy (which also has hot gay sex ),
- Stel Pavlou's "Decipher" (which is more of near future techno thriller than scifi),
- Dan Simmons' Hyperion and Endymion novels (the end of which is the most memorable ending I can... uhm... remember), and last but very much not least
- Vernor Vinge's books, all of which I love most.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Not read either of these two yet. Must have a look to see what they're about.

Steer clear of Stross' fantasy stuff - not supposed to be very good, but I can reccommend Accelerando, Iron Sunrise and Singularity Sky.

 

[Mariner]

I reckon Morgan sticks some sex scenes in his books because he's either bored or he's a dirty old man.

As for China Mieville, a mixed bag really. Perdido Street Station was pretty good but personally I think the ending was a bit crap. I really enjoyed The Scar, certainly my favourite of his but I'm sure others wouldn't like the ending of that one! I read Iron Council over Christmas and although enjoyable in parts, I really just couldn't wait for it to finish as I became rather bored.

Of Stross, I only read Singularity Sky last month and quite enjoyed it. Like his style of writing and he's willing to put a fair bit of humour in there so I'll be looking for his other books.

Other authors I think I can recommend are Jon Courtenay Grimwood, especially his Arabesk trilogy. How about Julian May? I quite enjoyed her "Saga of the Exiles" series and follow-up "Galactic Milieu" trilogy.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Other authors I think I can recommend are Jon Courtenay Grimwood, especially his Arabesk trilogy. How about Julian May? I quite enjoyed her "Saga of the Exiles" series and follow-up "Galactic Milieu" trilogy.

Grimwoods been getting some good reviews, though I haven't read any of his stuff. I don't do Julian May. The trilogies in nine parts put me right off, and I don't do fantasy.