AMD's new Mantle API - Console Perspective

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Shortbread, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. eastmen

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Personaly I believe mantle is DX 12 . AMD just needed to expose it earlier and thus mantle but everything we are seeing from mantle will be part of dx12
     
  2. taisui

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    0
    am I missing something or Mantle is NOT a Windows API?
     
  3. Brad Grenz

    Brad Grenz Philosopher & Poet
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oregon
    Mantle is an API that can run on Windows. They said it's cross-platform and the creation of AMD and DICE. Microsoft has no involvement. Any suggestions that it is based on any version of DirectX or an Xbox One API are simply wrong. It only exists because MS wasn't active enough in addressing developer concerns with DirectX.
     
  4. Pixel

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    454
    Here is the thing Anand at Anandtech.com might have gotten wrong. Someone else pointed this out in another forum (not me):
    [​IMG]

    Notice it says 'used instead of directx 11 on compatible gpus'. Not, used in conjunction with directx (specifically direct3d) like Anand thought.
     
  5. Brad Grenz

    Brad Grenz Philosopher & Poet
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oregon
    Anandtech's only evidence was a compatibility with HLSL, but that's pretty meaningless since AFAIK all the high level shader languages are really similar and it's just a matter of compiling them to what you want. Sony's PSSL is, for example, reportedly nearly identical to HLSL. So to suggest compatibility with HLSL implies a connection to DX or Xbox One is simply wrong.
     
  6. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    3,694
    Likes Received:
    2,139
    Neither Microsoft or Sony seem likely to benefit from a development that makes modest gaming PCs competitive to their shiny new consoles and allows higher end machines to even more thoroughly outclass them. I don't think either company is rooting for this to be widely supported.

    As a consumer and PC/console gamer, though, I think it's a dream come true. Can't wait to see the first benches of BF4 on Mantle.
     
  7. Ceger

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
  8. taisui

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    0
    From what I gather, Mantle is like 3dfx's Glide (if any of you are old enough to know what that actually is). Also I don't know if AMD had announced support for any OS other than Windows. Having HLSL compatible just means you'd write the shader in the same language, but the compiles form is Mantle, not DirectX. Pretty interesting development for PC now that nVidia's working with Valve on Linux gaming, though not sure if there's any impact on Mantle being supported on console (probably none).
     
  9. gurgi

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    1
    are you implying less IQ based intentions for performance?...because i don't really see the analogy



    someone is going to buy them?
     
  10. Pixel

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    454
    This could potentially negate the need to purchase a new version of windows everytime a new version of DX comes out.

    Devs would love this.
     
  11. RudeCurve

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    0
    Or PowerVR's PowerSGL...
     
  12. Barbarian

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2005
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    California, USA
    As a developer I'm truly excited about this development.
    If Nvidia come out with a similar API, DX will become almost instantly obsolete.
    Porting to a couple of APIs is not a big deal. HLSL compatibility is key though.
    I'm willing to bet, Mantle will be the only way to match next-gen consoles draw call performance.
    If you think PCs have trouble with 5k draw calls right now, imagine what will happen when consoles start pushing 100k draw calls in a year or two ...
     
  13. zupallinere

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    19
    Yeah DX 11.2 is Windows 8 only. Not being able to scr... leverage the API to adjust customers incentives might an issue for MS.
     
  14. taisui

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    0
    where did you get the idea that the consoles are power house compare to the PC?
     
  15. Cjail

    Cjail Fool
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    210
    Maybe it's a stupid question but will mantle allow the same level of control of consoles API?
     
    #35 Cjail, Sep 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2013
  16. liquidboy

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    77
  17. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    41,727
    Likes Received:
    12,801
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    He didn't say that. Barbarian is (was?) a console developer and was only talking about draw calls which have a massive overhead on DirectX.
     
  18. DieH@rd

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,179
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Yeah, AMD decided to give GCN architecture really long shelf life, which is really important if they want to give it dedicated API support. With the release of Mantle, i really cant see AMD moving on from GCN to something significantly different in the next 5 years at least.

    I cant see nVidia having that kind of support for their architectures. Maybe I am wrong, but they change their architectures a lot.


    S3D, RRedline, ATI3DCIF... I still have nightmares about my first PC that I had for 4 years. It had integrated SIS 6326. No D3D 6 support, no OpenGL. Hell on earth.
     
    #38 DieH@rd, Sep 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2013
  19. Pixel

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    454
    So some people are thinking this will replace PCs D3D, while others are thinking it will relatively easily work in conjuction with many HLSL such as D3D, but not making D3D obselete.

    AMD's twitter suggests that it works in conjunction with D3D on PCs, since they link to Anandtech's speculation
     
  20. Pixel

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    454
    This is just speculation but could Mantle already be up and running on x1 in some form?

    Delete this post if its too speculative.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...