AMD RyZen CPU Architecture for 2017

Zen ESs reaching the BD speed-racer clock-speeds already means to me that Zen has had some significant inheritance from BD , the 32 nm GF process was truly a disaster or that labeling a CPU "speed racer" is just liberal marketing speak.

A combination of these factors, likely.
 
Zen ESs reaching the BD speed-racer clock-speeds already means to me that Zen has had some significant inheritance from BD , the 32 nm GF process was truly a disaster or that labeling a CPU "speed racer" is just liberal marketing speak.

A combination of these factors, likely.
From my understanding the 32nm process was really really bad at the start but got very very good by the time they moved to 28bulk (look at 8370E). BD isn't a speed racer design, it's integer pipeline is shorter then Intels, BD was just a bad target really, it wasn't what the market wanted and for some reason the modules are huge. Then add in all the glass jaws the design seemed to have and there was no redemption.

Zen pipeline is longer then BD and 14nm LLP is a faster process then 32nm SOI, sure there are many other factors (target FO4 , LLP voltage/clock curve etc) but there was nothing at the high level design that screamed low clocks. The funny thing is CON cores Fmax is caused by the L2 cache, give how bloodly slow that thing is (in cycles for accesses) i bet no one saw that comming....lol
 
From my understanding the 32nm process was really really bad at the start but got very very good by the time they moved to 28bulk (look at 8370E). BD isn't a speed racer design, it's integer pipeline is shorter then Intels, BD was just a bad target really, it wasn't what the market wanted and for some reason the modules are huge. Then add in all the glass jaws the design seemed to have and there was no redemption.
Part of that might be the lack of a uop cache, which allowed Intel's effective branch prediction penalty to appear shorter due to several stages dedicated to the full instruction fetch path being skipped. Even in the case of a uop cache miss, Sandy Bridge's mispredict penalty was ~17 cycles to Bulldozers 20 (or sometimes worse because it's Bulldozer).
More recent Intel cores do appear to have added more stages, although it's not talked about with much detail in public these days.
However, this is multiple nodes past 32nm, so despite the longer pipelines they've packed more hardware into the stages in a manner contrary to a conceptual speed racer that might have longer pipelines with much less in them.

In that respect, speed racer or speed demon may be something of a subjective measure or one based on context.
If traditional scaling from the time of the concept had continued (per Intel's Tejas plan), a speed racer would be clocking at a multiple of some of the suicide OC runs done with modern cores.
Elements such as using stages to help buy margin in certain functions at lower voltages or combating a lack of scaling in wire delay seem to encourage more stages, while transistor scaling lets those stages be fatter than would have been feasible for earlier nodes.

That said, I think it would be argued that BD wasn't a speed demon, although it did have elements that showed a preference for a higher range. It didn't skip a number of features like bypassing and had a decent amount of width in some areas, perhaps marking it as a troubled compromise after speed racer clocks were definitively ruled out, and maybe AMD aborted some ambitious design effort that would have been enabled by CMT.

The funny thing is CON cores Fmax is caused by the L2 cache, give how bloodly slow that thing is (in cycles for accesses) i bet no one saw that comming....lol
I saw some discussion with third-hand conversations saying that the L2 array engineers were pretty insistent that their portion was fast enough. There was something that just didn't work out with BD in any concurrent memory access scenario, either between cores in a module or between modules.
 
AMD wanted BZ to be a SD but they simply couldn't do it. I dont know in which stage of development they realized how fked they were but I think it was too late to change anything important. Remember that BZ target frequency was 5Ghz base(!) And to be honest the whole design lacked an insulting amount of efficiency(misses, latency) the cores spend too many cycles idling waiting for something to do.

Im actually curious about what path AMD is going to take in the future, maybe a CMT+SMT design? that its something I really want to see.
 
more news: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3155...ssfire-lineup-info-and-more.html?sf49853066=1

Full family of chips at launch, every ryzen will be able to OC but only 3 chipsets will be able to allow it. Only the X370 will allow multiGPU.

Oh and AMD said they are not "aiming for the end of the Q" for the launch time. I guess this means sometime in the middle because they need more time to finish, validated and produce the CPUs.
 
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Good new motherboard info, thanks.

Looks like all things considered I'll be targeting a 6/12 + B350. I don't see any reason to go X370 as I never have and never will Crossfire/SLI.
 
Good new motherboard info, thanks.

Looks like all things considered I'll be targeting a 6/12 + B350. I don't see any reason to go X370 as I never have and never will Crossfire/SLI.
Yes I dont feel the need for the x370 either. I wont do multiGPU and certainly hate LEDs...(can't sleep with so many lights shinning in my room).
 
I agree its likely AMD didn't end up where they planned to with CON cores.
Good new motherboard info, thanks.

Looks like all things considered I'll be targeting a 6/12 + B350. I don't see any reason to go X370 as I never have and never will Crossfire/SLI.
It will all come down to VRM config for me, if i can get highend X370 VRM config on a B350, then it looks good to me. Zen will prob be my first dabble with an AIO cooler as well. maybe i'll go super crazy and phase change cool it....lol
 
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I agree its likely AMD didn't end up where they planned to with CON cores.

It will all come down to VRM config for me, if i can get highend X370 VRM config on a B350, then it looks good to me. Zen will prob be my first dabble with an AIO cooler as well. maybe i'll go super crazy and phase change cool it....lol
I dont know about the quality of the VRMs but seems like unless u plan to use phase or LN you wont be limited by them if you get a good b350 board.
 
So briefly to not stray too much of the topic.. just how many NVMe devices one could get installed into a new generation mid to high endish motherbord? That AM4 platform slide with its 1 X4 NVMe had me confused.

I'm planning an upgrade (to Zen or an appealing Intel 8 core) this year and I'd go for one system and one storage drive , both NVMe
 
So briefly to not stray too much of the topic.. just how many NVMe devices one could get installed into a new generation mid to high endish motherbord? That AM4 platform slide with its 1 X4 NVMe had me confused.

I'm planning an upgrade (to Zen or an appealing Intel 8 core) this year and I'd go for one system and one storage drive , both NVMe

So it looks like from the SOC there are 4 dedicated pci-e gen 3 lanes that can be configured however a MB maker wants (U.2, M.2 or 2x Sata-E). After that i think you will need to use pci-e based solutions for extra devices. I believe Zen has 20 pci-e gen 3 lanes outside of the links to a chipset or for the above mentioned storage connectors.

So i guess you millage my vary based off motherboard configuration.
 
From what I can tell the CPU supplies the only PCIe G3 connections, with one 16x connection for graphics (or 2 @ 8x) and one x4 connection shared between 2 SATA ports and NVMe devices or spare PCIe slots. The chipset has a further 8 lanes of PCIe G2.

You can't use any of the 2 SATA connections that link to the CPU if you don't want your NVMe drive limited to 2x PCIe 3. Any other M2 drive will have to rely on the chipset also, and thus be running at PCIe G2 spec.

I hope this is wrong, the one hope I have is that there are images of boards out there with 2 M2 slots, but only one of the slots appears to be full size. This to me would also mean that even if the M2 slots allowed full size cards, you would have to use the one closest to the CPU (and GPU waste heat) to get the 4x PCIe G3 connection. The chipset does also mention PCIe G3 for eSATA ports, of which there are two.

It's looking pretty constrictive to me. If you want to add a PCIe NIC or any other expansion card, you can't have a modern NVMe M2 drive run at full speed. If you want to use a SATA drive connected to the CPU and not chipset, you can't either. And like I said above, it doesn't appear that you can have two M2 NVMe x4 Gen 3 drives running at full speed, even if the slots accommodate them.
 
So it looks like from the SOC there are 4 dedicated pci-e gen 3 lanes that can be configured however a MB maker wants (U.2, M.2 or 2x Sata-E). After that i think you will need to use pci-e based solutions for extra devices. I believe Zen has 20 pci-e gen 3 lanes outside of the links to a chipset or for the above mentioned storage connectors.

So i guess you millage my vary based off motherboard configuration.

http://techreport.com/news/31228/amd-shows-off-ryzen-ready-chipsets-and-motherboards-at-ces

This is what I'm reading:

From CPU:
- 16x PCIe G3 lanes for graphics
- 4x PCIe G3 lanes for storage or 2 for storage and 2 for PCIe

From chipset:
- 8x/6x/4x (depending on chipset) PCIe G2 lanes for GP PCIe
- 2x(?) PCIe G3 lanes for SATAe or GP PCIe

This setup is very restrictive. The 20x PCIe Gen 3 lanes you are talking about are completely used up by 1 modern graphics card and 1 modern M2 SSD. I hope that at least one of the usable PCIe x 1 slots uses a lane of the GP PCIe G3 from the chipset so that we can do something as simple as install a PCIe NIC, soundcard etc without hobbling our M2 drive. We might not have a choice in which slot we use even if that is the case unfortunately.
 
Do Intels provide a better configuration with more PCIe G3 lanes from the CPU?
 
A modern GPU doesn't come close to using 16x pci-e Gen 3. Last time i checked there was hardly a difference from 8x gen 2 to 16x gen 2, so following that you could almost get away with 4x gen 3 for a GPU.

Do Intels provide a better configuration with more PCIe G3 lanes from the CPU?
for 2011 yes, for 1151 no.


edit: 8x vs 16x pci-e gen 3 http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus

this one 16x gen 1,2,3 comparision:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/pci_express_scaling_game_performance_analysis_review,5.html
 
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Well I also want to move away from sata to m2 or u2(amd also supports it) but I don't think m2 is the future, it's too impractical, consume too much space in the board. We need a standard with m2 performance but without having the drive directly connected to the board. Maybe a future u2 with 3dxp or idk.

Enviado desde mi HTC One mediante Tapatalk
 
http://techreport.com/news/31228/amd-shows-off-ryzen-ready-chipsets-and-motherboards-at-ces

From chipset:
- 8x/6x/4x (depending on chipset) PCIe G2 lanes for GP PCIe
- 2x(?) PCIe G3 lanes for SATAe or GP PCIe

http://hothardware.com/gallery/NewsItem/39819?image=big_amd_am4_summary.jpg
Reading the small print, I think its saying the '2 SATAe' can be combined into a single 4x PCI-E 3.0 port on a motherboard.
But anything else connected to the chipset's SATA or USB ports or PCI-E 2.0 slots would then be contending with the PCI-E 3.0 4x slot for bandwidth to the CPU.
 
AMD confirms all RYZEN processors can be overclocked
One more for the weekend. I actually already mentioned this bit of in in one of my earlier posts, but it is now confirmed. AMD will release several RYZEN model CPUs at launch. What wasn't confirmed just yet IF they would be overclockable , e.g. like an unlocked K model Intel processor. This is now confirmed.

All CPUs will be multiplier unlocked, the launch also invokes several models positioned lower then the 8-core flagship (also unlocked). There is obviously a motherboard restriction to be able to overclock, here you will not run into any problems either as the X370-, X300- and B350 chipsets will all support processor tweaking. Only the low-end A320 model chipset will not be overclockable.
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-confirms-all-ryzen-processors-can-be-overclocked.html
 
Well I also want to move away from sata to m2 or u2(amd also supports it) but I don't think m2 is the future, it's too impractical, consume too much space in the board. We need a standard with m2 performance but without having the drive directly connected to the board. Maybe a future u2 with 3dxp or idk.

Enviado desde mi HTC One mediante Tapatalk

My view is the exact opposite. I love the fact that we can now connect drives over the board. In hindsight, all those drive cages cases have look so silly (and 5.5 / 3.5/ 2.5 drives slots). Sure , hopefully M2 drives can be stacked in the future

I'm waiting for a new breed of case designs, now that theres much space to be had for e.g. interesting cooling solutions. Who will blink first?
 
Isn't that space on the board they consume pretty much unused space anyway?
 
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