AMD: R8xx Speculation

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Shtal, Jul 19, 2008.

?

How soon will Nvidia respond with GT300 to upcoming ATI-RV870 lineup GPUs

Poll closed Oct 14, 2009.
  1. Within 1 or 2 weeks

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  2. Within a month

    5 vote(s)
    3.2%
  3. Within couple months

    28 vote(s)
    18.1%
  4. Very late this year

    52 vote(s)
    33.5%
  5. Not until next year

    69 vote(s)
    44.5%
  1. neliz

    neliz GIGABYTE Man
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,904
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    In the know
  2. MfA

    MfA
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    6,705
    Likes Received:
    458
    More accurate results, but it tells us nothing about when we stop seeing the difference in quality.

    BTW, in the general case the footprint of a square pixel in texture space is a quadrilateral not a parallelogram ... using a line of equally weighted bilinear samples is not really optimal.
     
  3. XMAN26

    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    1
    UNder load, 100C core temps, WTF?! Damn they run hot when in use. People used to make fun of 5800U, but with the 5870, you reall can fry an egg with it.
     
  4. Novum

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Germany
    Oh yes it does. Even oversampling with double the amount of samples makes no visible difference.

    And yes I tested it :)
     
  5. FrameBuffer

    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    3
    I think the difference being that the 5800U fan @ 100% sounded like a hoover where as the 5870s (iirc) are running at 30%.
     
    #3685 FrameBuffer, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2009
  6. leoneazzurro

    Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    Rome, Italy
    They say that the GTX295 reached 99 °C, and they stopped it because Temperature was still rising. This was running Furmark, anyway.
    However, I think it´s better to wait for other reviews.
     
  7. CJ

    CJ
    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Messages:
    816
    Likes Received:
    40
    Location:
    MSI Europe HQ
    Furmark will push any core to 100C and fry it if you're not careful. Unless you enjoy running Furmark 24/7, I don't think temperatures will be an issue.
     
  8. MfA

    MfA
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    6,705
    Likes Received:
    458
    That was not the direction I was really suggesting taking it in. A lot of samples will have positions very close to a texel you have already sampled with another position, so maybe you can cheat and just nudge the sampling position of that other sample a bit and ignore the texels which have only a very small contribution. Transparency with a reference method which is only a coarse approximation (due to mipmapping, weighting, inappropriate shape of filter etc) is simply not an issue to me.

    How does it look?
     
    #3688 MfA, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2009
  9. ChrisRay

    ChrisRay <span style="color: rgb(124, 197, 0)">R.I.P. 1983-
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,234
    Likes Received:
    26

    The IQ clamp only sets itself to zero for if the game uses an LoD thats gone past a negative bias. Not every texture mipmap will have one. Also adjusting the LoD globally to a -LoD will not work if you clamp the LoD. Honestly if your using AF at all you should never adjust the LoD past its default "Zero".

    I personally don't clamp the LoD but I havent experienced any games where its been a big problem for me. That picture you showed me does not look like a texture filtering problem to me but more like a MSAA problem. I wonder if its been fixed.. Do you have a link to that actual preview?

    Whats the Nvidia Profile page? You mean the Manage 3D settings page? How many games do you have installed? 2 minutes is a long time. It really shouldnt take more than say 5 seconds.

    Chris
     
  10. ChrisRay

    ChrisRay <span style="color: rgb(124, 197, 0)">R.I.P. 1983-
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,234
    Likes Received:
    26
    Seems really odd to go from 0x/0x to 8x/0x rather than 4x/16xAF and 8x/16xAAF. I have always assumed that any card over 150 dollars its assumed you'll at least use 4xAA.
     
  11. XMAN26

    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    1
    If 30% = 54+DBs, then ATI has fucked up something serious as anything faster will sound like a Hoover vacume.
     
  12. Jawed

    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    10,873
    Likes Received:
    767
    Location:
    London
    There's always a bottleneck somewhere :wink:

    Agreed.

    Unless they're fetched by the TUs (unlikey I'd say) it seems they'd be in L2. The buffer is there merely to smooth data flow as consumption varies.

    I wouldn't be surprised if interconnect : RAM ratio is better in Larrabee (i.e. less of a performance constraint relative to a single chip) than in traditional GPUs. If any of these ever do this, of course.

    I say that because Larrabee appears to demand relatively little bandwidth per unit performance, while chip interconnect bandwidth is more a physics question than anything (i.e. it is an area : performance trade-off that's pretty much equal no matter ATI, Intel or NVidia).

    Sorry, "similar mechanism". I'm not claiming anything about performance, it was just an analogue for the kinds of inefficiencies that arise due to the order of the consumption of triangles not matching their order of production (their layout in memory).

    As long as performance scales adequately with multiple chips, who cares? It's a question of whether it sells, not absolute performance. People have been buying AFR X2 junk for years now, putting up with frankly terrible driver support.

    I can't work out what you're quantifying here.

    Ultimately the key thing about Larrabee is it has lots of FLOPs per watt and per mm² and is heavily dependent on GPU-like implicit (4-way per core) and explicit (count of fibres) threading to hide systematic latencies. So whether the latency is due to a texture fetch, a gather or data that is non-local, the key question is can the architecture degrade gracefully? Maybe only once it's reached version X?

    I think I completely misintrepreted what you said before. I'm not sure why you say bin spread is going to get worse with flimsy binning of triangles.

    I'd hope there'd be performance counters and the programmers make the pipeline algorithms adaptive. The fact that there are choices about the balance of front-end and back-end processing indicates some adaptivity. Though that could be as naive as a "per-game" setting in the driver.

    Yes, I'm thinking in terms of the programming of Intel's drivers supporting games through standard APIs.

    Yes, I agree in general, since computation is cheap and, relatively speaking, cheaper in multi-chip. All I'm saying is that Intel has a lot of potential flexibility (if it's serious about multi-chip) and it's a matter of not leaving gotchas in the architecture. Considering the appalling maturation path of multi-GPU, so far, Intel could hardly do worse. The only risk seems to be that consumers get sick of multi-chip (price-performance, driver-woes).

    Of course now that we learn that R800 doesn't have dual-setup engines and is merely rasterising at 32 pixels per clock, it does put the prospects of any kind of move to multiple-setup (and multi-chip setup) way off in the future.

    Jawed
     
  13. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    15,937
    Likes Received:
    4,891
    I love how people pan 3dmark as being useless because it has no realworld application.

    And here we're using Furmark, an application with even less real world relevance to say, OMGWTFBBQ!#@! According to Furmark my 4870 should have exploded and burnt down my house by now, yet amazingly enough it runs just peachy.

    Hehe.

    Anyways, it's a non-issue, in even the most demanding real world application I'd be surprised if this got even remotely close to 90c unless your ambient temp is already in the high 30's.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  14. Arty

    Arty KEPLER
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,906
    Likes Received:
    55
    Now that PhsyX has been established as a game changer, this is the next (non)issue. ;)
     
  15. Rangers

    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    12,318
    Likes Received:
    1,117

    Well I dont know what the deal is but my 4890 was hitting 85C on Crysis, this in a 1280X window, so at my monitors native res of 1680, I assume it would have been worse.

    I must say the 4890 has brought home heat/power issues for me, for the first time ever. My old 9800GTX was a much better citizen. Although the 9800 idled at 72C, it ran quiet. The 4890 idles at 54C, but it idles loud enough to be slightly annoying. Further, my 500 watt Antec powers supply which I assumed to be plenty, is apparently not enough for the card. I've been having random black screen-->reboot in Crysis, in trying to determine if it was core temp, VRM temp, or PSU that was causing the shutdowns, I discovered that according to OCCT my 12V line is getting pulled down under 11V on heavy applications. I cant believe a quality 500 watt supply isn't sufficient. Now whats worse after spending so many hundreds on a gaming PC when I really dont even PC game that much, I need a new $120+ power supply, and really a new $30+ GPU cooler as well to get reasonable temps at reasonable noise levels. To spend another $150 after already spending $250 on the card really just to play Cysis is really making me balk.

    I'm not sure if it's ATI or just the way high end cards are getting these days, but it's been the first card I've had that really is such a heat/power monster it becomes problematic. However it is a powercolor model overclocked to 950, though with an aftermarket fan that I assume would be better not worse than the standard) so perhaps the stock models are not so bad.
     
  16. MfA

    MfA
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    6,705
    Likes Received:
    458
    I hope we start seeing more cards with internal exhaust cooling aimed at enthusiast (with a big RED warning sticker "Don't expect this to work in cases with retarded airflow."). For the moment only the Asian market seems to get these.
     
  17. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    15,937
    Likes Received:
    4,891
    Dunno, I run Crysis at 2560x1600 with 4xAA on a 4890 and it never breaks 80c. That's in a very cramped Shuttle XPC small form factor case. Battleforge in a 2400x1500 window with 4xAA actually makes my 4890 break 80c. But not by much. Then again I have air con, so ambient temperature in my place is usually in the 25-28c area.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  18. ChrisRay

    ChrisRay <span style="color: rgb(124, 197, 0)">R.I.P. 1983-
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,234
    Likes Received:
    26
    You guys do realize that these ambient tempature discussions are really useless because they can vary greatly on room tempature? The actual threshold tempatures don't bother me as much as leaked tempature. IE how much gets dumped into your living area.
     
  19. Kowan

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    If you mean dumping heated air into the case, I hope they continue exhausting it out the back. A single card setup wouldn't matter as much as a multi-card setup dumping that heat into the case.
     
  20. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    14,813
    Likes Received:
    2,229
    @chrisray that pic was from ati's site i do remember f1 99-02 being used a few years ago as an example of ati's better af I googled for some articles but couldnt find any sorry

    as to the Manage 3D settings page 1 minute 34 seconds (i timed it ) 315 games installed
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...