Still , like most ,you only talk about the Gpu side of these consoles (how the game "look")......I guess CPU isn't that important in interactive entertainement.
Am. Football games 2008 PS3/X360
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Still , like most ,you only talk about the Gpu side of these consoles (how the game "look")......I guess CPU isn't that important in interactive entertainement.
If Oblivion is one, what's the other?
Did I? I believe Joker's points have been very much with respect to using each consoles gpu and cpu to componsate for their respective disadvantages.
My position is simple. I would look towards first parties (or any exclusive developers) to push the envelope of the target system. I look at cross platform developers for well... cross platform related development framework and challenges.
In my view, breaking console into a check list of bullet points obscure the real developer factors. Like how nAo created his own efficient HDR scheme, and how DeanoC overloaded the atomic cache. Ultimately, the developers count the most. Plus it is the whole game that matters (not individual bottlenecks).
I do not believe in joker454's list simply because it skips the entire human dynamics and the possibilities/leg room. The simple answer to me is to wait for the right game(s) and see PS3 and Xbox 360 shine. It doesn't change the big picture if an average game performs par for the course.
Ok... I gotta run. Have a bounty on my head these few weeks
In my view, breaking console into a check list of bullet points obscure the real developer factors. Like how nAo created his own efficient HDR scheme, and how DeanoC overloaded the atomic cache. Ultimately, the developers count the most. Plus it is the whole game that matters (not individual bottlenecks).
I do not believe in joker454's list simply because it skips the entire human dynamics and the possibilities/leg room. The simple answer to me is to wait for the right game(s) and see PS3 and Xbox 360 shine. It doesn't change the big picture if an average game performs par for the course.
Ok... I gotta run. Have a bounty on my head these few weeks
What exactly do you mean by that? Bias is natural and expected. I'd expect any multi-platform dev to prefer one platform over the other, because tastes vary. As long as those biases are caused by their own preferences for the system, and not any extraneous forces such as brand loyalty or companies paying their wages, and it doesn't blinker a dev to the advantages and disadvantages in all systems, there's nowt wrong with it.
ShootMyMonkey. That's a name; not a request to assail my primate!
That doesn't make his opinions any less valid. As a multiplatform dev Fafalada's contribution is just as valid as Joker454's, and Joker's opinion isn't as Tap-In said the first mulitplatform dev. Likewise SMM. Both have contributed their opinions alongside others, bringing different perspectives to the table.
MonkeyLicker
Newcomer
Is faf a multi platform developer?
I thought he has only developed titles for Sony systems. Has he started working on the PS3 yet? Last I heard he was working with the PSP.
You're right that it doesn't make faf's opinion invalid, but it is something to consider when weighing all the facts.
I thought he has only developed titles for Sony systems. Has he started working on the PS3 yet? Last I heard he was working with the PSP.
You're right that it doesn't make faf's opinion invalid, but it is something to consider when weighing all the facts.
I cannot think of a single one that fits this statement.
Oh and will you guys stop making up stuff about Oblivion? It wasn't primarily developed for the X360. Oblivion was first and foremost developed for the PC. Besethda had a half year, maximum, on a x360 kit that had any meaningful hardware.
Oblivion devs had more time with the PS3 devkits than they did with the X360 devkits (final X360 hardware on devkits came out in september, before that they had a ghetto devkit based on a X800XT and a G5 cpu, while the PS3 final kits have been avaliable since february\march 2007, before that, they had Cell + G70 architecture since 2005, which is roughly the same as final kit).
I don't know if he's multiplatform or not. Actually I don't think he is, and Darkon was wrong on that count.
I meant MultiPlat dev who actually has admitted to currently/recently working on a game for both Xbox 360 and PS3.
hard to come by in these parts even with the other names mentioned.
(unless you count DeanoC and his work on XNA games.
SMM is working on a project for both consoles, don't know about faf, but does it matter if he isn't working on a game for both consoles ? he obviously played around with both devkits already.
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I'm only looking out about 3-4 years from now, by then I'll be more interested in next-next gen anyways. But if you were to assume a 3-4 year time frame, then I do believe that the gpu still has a more important role than cpu. Take a look at what's out now, whats coming soon, whats planned, etc. Maybe I'm off, but from what I see most games seem to fall into typical cpu use patterns. Sure there will be tweaked AI, better physics, etc, but I can't see any future title that screams for the need of a cpu that is better than what the current machines offer. Using the PC game world to make an example, do you first think "i need a new cpu" or "i need a new video card" when you see future titles?
The need for more gpu though is always immediately apparent. No matter how good a game looks, it never looks good enough. For some anecdotal evidence, just check some of the typical comments on these forums, stuff like:
"I don't want to see jaggies"
"Why aren't they using anisotropic filtering"
"Why does the skin look like plastic"
"What's wrong with the lighting"
"Looks like shit"
You hear gpu related comments all the time. I don't often hear "wow it doesn't have full physics simulation between everyone, I'm not buying it". At least not yet anyways. The goodies that come from the gpu, at this point in time, are more expected and "must have" than the goodies that come from the cpu. At some point this will change, eventually we will demand a certain level of AI, physics, etc. But I don't see things changing dramatically in a 3-4 year time frame.
Maybe I'm wrong? Let's see, take a simple test! Think of the top 5 things you wish would be better in a game you recently played or are currently playing, and see which part of the hardware would most contribute to improving them.
I had not heard that they both (or either) have worked on both 360 and PS3 yet this gen. I had heard of last gen games from both systems but not current (next) gen.
I certainly had not heard that it was as joker has done where he has taken code from the same game from one Next Gen console to the other. (ignore the simplicity of this statement in regard to "code running on two different machines" and insert the usual caveats)
If I am mistaken about that, then I apologize and perhaps Faf or SMM could illuminate.
Edit: wow...got a phone call and missed a bunch of posts until I got around to posting this...
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MonkeyLicker
Newcomer
If you're looking for detailed information on how code runs on both platforms then it is very important.
I think that says a lot by itself.
Tap In, may I suggest you retitle the thread to multiplatform development or something? No one here seems to care about individual football titles, the topic is interesting and continuously ruin individual multiplatform game threads.
you did not read my edit where I suggest that OF course that code needed to be changed.
joker is giving interesting insight as to why some sports games (his included) may not hit 60fps on PS3 ... of course he is also saying that it will change over time.
I did and it doesn't really counter the argument that you start the port from a reference which isn't doing anything RSX is better at.you did not read my edit where I suggest that OF course that code needed to be changed.
That's why I think the title should be generic, so that the discussions can stay on topic.
And it is not an issue limited to sports titles anyway.
you did not read my edit where I suggest that OF course that code needed to be changed.
joker is giving interesting insight as to why some sports games (his included) may not hit 60fps on PS3 ... of course he is also saying that it will change over time.
As interesting as it is, he has not said anything specific. 60fps vs 30fps implies the 360 can do the same amount of work in half the time. I don't think anyone will tell you the Xenos or Xenon (forget which is which) is twice as fast as the RSX. Since many game have v-sync off (including Madden 07), why can't we talk about 60fps vs 45fps?
Yes ! In this case, a cross platform developer may have a skewed view of the platforms (based on the port order and the "tools" they started out with).
I'm also interested to see how/whether the developers evolve. Early developers clearly had little help from Sony. We also heard that the PS3 devkit SDK software was late (although the hardware may be on schedule or ready).
Nonetheless, companies like Insomniac and Evolution delivered by building their own engines. Some tried to generalize their 360 work until Sony delivered EDGE. Some uses existing middleware, or even PS2 tools. Yet others rejected EDGE for something they feel is even better. I'd say there is still a wealth of information missing.
Fight Night looks better aswell, but theres no point in mentioning any of these games as people just say that the dev teams spent tons of time optimizing for PS3, even though this isnt true.
Like Patsu said, look towards 1st-party games for a true test of a systems power. Anyone unsure about PS3 only need to look at Motorstorm and Heavenly Sword, then count the number of console games with visuals on-a-par with them.
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