A reasonable facsimile of RE5 capable on Wii?

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Li Mu Bai, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. thundermonkey

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    You characterized it as that "Overbright effect".

    I assumed that meant you were just one of those random message board types that didn't realize what it did, but thought it made light brighter and prettier. You understand it, so now I'm fully on your side in this thread.
     
  2. Li Mu Bai

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    Thank you tm, I'm familiar with you from the Neo-Gaf forums. I simply enjoy seeing developers accomplish more with less, it challenges them to get creative with code implementation. Others simply assume that certain effects are unattainable, & therefore cannot be done without any form of experimentation. (given what they know regarding Wii tech.) It reminds me of the PS2 at the relative end of its life-cycle with the stunning GOW2 & MGS:SE. Not that RE:DC is approaching what those titles did as far as pushing the Wii, (as they pushed the PS2) but the tech being implemented here is where I'm drawing the parallels.
     
  3. thundermonkey

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    I made a new friend.

    *blushes*

    And I agree. Good coders, and artists come out of the woodwork when they have to deal with "lesser" hardware. Because it takes more skill to make a 5,000 poly model look good then it does a 25,000 poly model.
     
  4. Rolf N

    Rolf N Recurring Membmare
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    And I'm still sad. HDR isn't immediately visible. An image with detail and contrast can be LDR or HDR, you can't tell that easily. Is the Beyond3D forum HDR because it has full white elements in the background and "almost washed out" fine detail in the outer border? Of course not. It's in a standard LDR colorspace. It's not dynamically tone-mapped either. Same story for that video.

    I'm guessing the bright yellow ground texture is what gets you all excited, but it's just a static texture. There's no sign for HDR behaviour anywhere, no dynamic tone mapping (retina sim etc), not even the usual, terrible, unrealistic fuzzy glows around full-bright objects. Nothing.

    It's a texture and it's pretty bright. That's all.
     
  5. thundermonkey

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    Not exactly the highest quality video, but it does seem to me that the effect is there, it's much more subtle then it is in RE5, and nowhere near as stark of contrast between light and dark, but I don't agree.

    Then again I don't agree that it looks low poly like I read earlier in the thread either. The zombies don't have as many polies, but Krauser looks a lot more detailed then Leon in RE4.
     
  6. Nano

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    No doubt.

    They've proven that if they wanted it could be replicated closely on an artistic level and overall atmosphere. They have also proven it would have effects resembling that of RE5 itself, even if not as advanced they would be still in the same family and achieving the overall goal.
     
  7. DuckThor Evil

    DuckThor Evil Anas platyrhynchos
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    Hmm I would think it can make fairly large difference, when the developers know exactly what is drawn on the screen, that is somewhat similar to real time cutscenes.
     
  8. Refreshment

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    Well, i don't know the HDR effect seems well implemented to me. Go check the first SA video from game trailers, specifically, at 3:51 (more or less) when they come out of the cabin.

    However its hard to appreciate what the game is doing due to the low fidelity video.

    Comparing it to the the swamp scene from RE4, since its the closer scenario that both games share you can see that this one has:
    -Doesnt seem to be letter boxed. Correct me if im wrong please.
    -The geometry detail seems higher.
    -Richer texture variety.
    -Full character shadows, remember RE4 used blobs (sp?) for enemies and blured ones for main characters (IIRC).
    -And of course the "HDR" effect. Think its the first of its kind in game on GC/Wii hardware.
    -But, i haven't seen a high amount of enemies been displayed at the same time, like RE4 does. I.E. In the first village level RE4 manages between 19-21 enemies without dropping the frames significantly. (3 Body types, 5 Heads, etc)

    Question to Li MU Bai. Where's the global illumination implementation in the game? Very interested on this one.
     
    #48 Refreshment, Oct 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2009
  9. RudeCurve

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    RE4 Wii isn't letterboxed, it's full widescreen.
     
  10. Refreshment

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    *Note:
    Should have specified that my experience with RE4 was with the GC version. Thanks Rudecurve for pointing that out.
     
  11. Li Mu Bai

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    I disagree, as HDR is clearly visible in 2:40, 2:55, & 3:06 of the montage video. LDR does not incorporate any bloom lighting, which is as we both know is a key component of HDR & that the Wii can handle this effect very easily. Its implementation is subtle, clearly not as pronounced as RE5 to be sure. The bleeding, unrealistic fuzzy glow you speak of can also be replicated by bloom lighting, & the halo effect is not necessarily always the hallmark of HDR.

    Iirc tone mapping can also reduce HDR's luminosity, & it may not always be readily visible in the image, scene, etc. Particularly in well-lit areas, so as to produce a more uniform & natural look. Though the details in both darkness & light are preserved. If these were claims made by an american developer, I would take them with a grain of salt. Japanese devs. however do not typically tout features which are not there. Along with the trailer as visual evidence, it is there albeit subdued in comparison to RE5.

    Normally I would agree with you but the LOD in the surronding props, certain indoor areas, & relatively low-poly repetitive zombie models simply do no reflect this. You have pointed out the very aspects in this game where theoretically it should be excelling, it should indeed look very close to real-time cutscenes, but the visual evidence is just not present. Certainly nothing has been shown to indicate that this could not be done in real-time on the Wii, I have admitted that some aspects pale in comparison to RE4. (certain model types, water, etc.)

    Yeah, it appears they even added a texture layer to his shirt.

    You're correct, RE4 wasn't true widescreen. The geometry is definitely hgher, particularly what appears to be some sort of massive greenhouse at 2:57-58 in the montage video. I haven't seen the same amount of zombies either, given the fixed lens this should not have been a problem. The shadowing system is much more robust, it seems that almost everthing casts shadows. Structures, awnings, etc, as this was definitely lacking in RE4. (inconsistent to no shadowcasting at all at times) The textures are indeed richer & more varied. Where global illumination is being implemented in the game I do not know, this quote is directly fom Cavia's Noguchi-san. Given how computationally taxing this would be, I suspect that the fixed camera may come into play here. Perhaps since you are being constantly guided (& scripted) certain areas or rooms' geometry can be more easily blended w/precalculated g/illumination computations perhaps? I'm interested in how this will be done as well.
     
    #51 Li Mu Bai, Oct 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2009
  12. RudeCurve

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    The global illumination is obviously baked.
     
  13. TheAlSpark

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    Bloom is just a post-process...

    None of those "HDR" scenes retain detail in the overly bright textures. They're completely washed out.
     
  14. Li Mu Bai

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    I understand that, but still needed as afterimage is depending upon the software
    You are mistaken, the detail is not completely washed out. New gameplay video evidence:

    http://www.gametrailers.com/video/south-america-resident-evil/57543
    http://www.gametrailers.com/video/south-america-resident-evil/57542
    http://www.gametrailers.com/video/south-america-resident-evil/57548 <especially this boss battle,

    its clearly apparent when the camera pans up & towards the church steeple. As well as when the camera looks back out towards the village.

    The more I thought about this, I came to the same conclusion. Diffuse inter-reflection, or "ambient lighting" entered my mind. Still, it is nice to see the effort. Some of the destructible props are laughable when shot, mainly the poorly textured ones. You can shoot out lights as well, (amongst many other objects the demo didn't show) but the game is so dark indoors I don't know why you would want to. New indoor videos I did not link.

    These aren't direct-feed videos, but the SA locale showcases lighting possibly restricted to this outdoor area. There are more zombie body types, but many look horrible up close. Cavia is talented, but not of Capcom's pedigree. Though they have impressed Capcom, if this installment sells equal to, or surpasses RE:UC I would expect Cavia & Capcom to collaborate more closely on some type of RE4.5 spin-off. Replete with a full RE budget etc. (1million+ copies ww iirc)
     
    #54 Li Mu Bai, Oct 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2009
  15. TheAlSpark

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    Those are LDR videos, plain and simple. Washed out "bright" textures. The tone-mapping in the third vid hardly constitutes HDR. Maybe if you consider "higher", but that's a bit of a stretch on several orders of magnitude.
     
  16. assurdum

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    I found RE 5 one of the biggest disappointment of this generation, a rough copy of gears of war. Really wii owners don't regret this game: the gameplay is a total step back of the previous chapter and the level design after the africa session is pure banality imho.
     
  17. Li Mu Bai

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    I'm aware, I also thought that RE5 took a nosedive after africa. The point was to design a spin-off based off of this title's engine. (with some further hands-on colloborative efforts with Capcom on modelling, prop textures, & water texturing) Although Manuella, Leon, Claire, Ada, Krauser, & Leon's models all look superior to their GC counterparts. (the ones that appeared in both) An RE:Lost Chapters would be perfect. Anyhow, 4 new videos from IGN:

    The Calvary
    http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14328...ry_110409.html >HDR rearing its head again

    Up the stairs
    http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14328...rs_110409.html

    Kick Some Ass
    http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14328...ss_110409.html

    Zombie Fish
    http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14328...sh_110409.html
     
  18. RudeCurve

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    links not worky...
     
  19. Kittonwy

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    LDR+bloom is NOT HDR, simple as that. The textures are horribly low res, the shadows are baked, the "lighting" is baked, the water doesn't reflect, no hint of shaders being used anywhere, no bump maps, no normal maps, not sure how you can do a "reasonable facsimile of RE5" when the wii can't even do an ON-RAIL, COMPLETELY SCRIPTED game with some decent current gen effects.
     
    #59 Kittonwy, Nov 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2009
  20. theafu

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    I don't think it's Wii I put it on capcom which seems only to be doing what doesn't put a strain on their development teams. I can't think of a single Wii game that had the effort of RE4 that came from them this generation.
     
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