A Generational Leap in Graphics [2020] *Spawn*

[BillSpencer]

I played this more than 7 years ago:

Does having ray tracing as standard mean all games will look at least like that?

for anybody interested in the global illumination solution for 2013 TLOU:
http://miciwan.com/SIGGRAPH2013/Lighting Technology of The Last Of Us.pdf

 

[techuse]

I don’t consider it a generational leap in graphics. I expect within a couple years it won’t hold up too well.

 

[PSman1700]

What people like a lot about MM implementation is the fact the raytracing goes further in distance than other implementation for dynamic object too, There is other compromise like resolution or using lower LOD but it is something devs knows seeing gamers reaction to raytracing effect. I am sure we will see the same on future PC title with less compromise than PS5 on more powerful hardware.

The limitation is visible seeing pedestrians popin inside reflection a few meters from the window if you did not watch the video. This was my main complaint for Watchdog Legions too. This is more annoying than not having reflection inside reflection for example.

The RT in CP2077 or even watchdogs is having advantages not seen in the PS games. On PS5 its due to the lower specced RT performance probably close to 2060S. Something like 2077 is so far ahead its not even a comparison. RT in spiderman is just the reflections to begin with.

Reading through this thread, I get the same feeling as I get with most threads.

PS5 users - X PS game has the best graphics and is the most next gen looking.
PC users - X multiplatform game has the best graphics and is the most next gen looking.
XBS-X/S users - ... Not much yet, will have to wait for a MS exclusive here.

There's some exceptions, but every generation it's always the same.

Regards,
SB

Hm yes, whats on Xbox is generally also on PC Dont forget star citizen as a pure graphical showcase either. No RT but its looking damn great anyway. It should have RT, though.

Why would you not compare the PS5 version considering the hardware you need to CP2077 decently, especially with RT? MM is stunning on the PS5 and is a locked 60 in performance RT.

The PS5 version of CP2077 isnt even close, its basically the PS4 version jacked up somewhat.

I think the title will be Battlefield a multiplatform game and I said it as a PS user.

Maybe, Battlefield has pushed boundaries before.

As a PS User, I don't think it will come from Horizon 2 Forbidden West because it is a cross gen game and I doubt a lot the next God of War won't be a cross gen game.

As a PC user, i hope it will be awesome graphically. Its my favourite setting (tropical paradise basically ) and its the only studio i have personal relatives to. That, and theres good chance there will be a pc version. But day one its PS5 for me (the sole reason i got one).

And not conclude that this is clearly the most graphically impressive game released to date. Although FS2020 should get an honourable mention for sheer photorealism.

Because its not a PS exclusive, for many. Not all, but for many. It doesnt matter, we will see the DF awards of what was the best looking game this year

I agree with @pjbliverpool here. Cyberpunk is the best looking game this year.

Thanks. /thread

Again RT is not the only way to do lighting

And let ampere be just that monster for it, it has alot of compute power for engines like UE5 tech demo.

Yep, as the owner of one of the fastest non-RT capable pieces of hardware on the market I'll be more than happy for it to be rendered obsolete.

2016 hardware should be imo, its closer to the base consoles of 2013 then to PS5/XSX

I don’t consider it a generational leap in graphics.

Oof, you better wait for PS6 then (if that ever makes it to the market) 10TF of rdna2 and 2060S ray tracing perf wont be your thing i think.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I think triangle based RT only games will arrive next generation(PS6/Xbox Series 2).

Yeah, a generation of UE5 games is likely. Unless they're able to implement a fast RT solution in their software. I guess that this will have for a small part of the rendering on console (within UE5) for the coming generation.

 

[BillSpencer]

Is it true that in Call of Duty Cold War the consoles are performing above 2070 level with RT turned on?

 

[PSman1700]

Is it true that in Call of Duty Cold War the consoles are performing above 2070 level with RT turned on?

Totally possible depending on normal rendering settings, the kind of RT quality used and possibly resolution scaling. Frame rates also matter these days.

 

[techuse]

We went through this same cycle last gen.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I don’t consider it a generational leap in graphics. I expect within a couple years it won’t hold up too well.

It will be surpassed this gen for certain. However even in a couple of years I have no doubt that the (PC) graphics will still hold up reasonably well and the scale and density of the world will continue to hold up extremely well. After all that is less a challenge of technology and more a challenge of dev time and budget. And few games for the rest of this generation will exceed CB2077 in that regard.

However I'm not really sure why it matters. It's (arguably (not really)) the most graphically impressive game available on the market today. Are you planning to stop gaming for the next 18 months so that the next game you play will look better? Surely it's better just to enjoy it now and then enjoy whatever exceeds it whenever that comes along?

 

[techuse]

It will be surpassed this gen for certain. However even in a couple of years I have no doubt that the (PC) graphics will still hold up reasonably well and the scale and density of the world will continue to hold up extremely well. After all that is less a challenge of technology and more a challenge of dev time and budget. And few games for the rest of this generation will exceed CB2077 in that regard.

However I'm not really sure why it matters. It's (arguably (not really)) the most graphically impressive game available on the market today. Are you planning to stop gaming for the next 18 months so that the next game you play will look better? Surely it's better just to enjoy it now and then enjoy whatever exceeds it whenever that comes along?

I absolutely agree on the scale and density holding up to some extent. With the exception of specific rendering features I disagree that the graphics will hold up.

It doesn't matter, everyone is free to enjoy the game and visuals in whatever capacity they choose. I just gave my opinion on the topic of this being a generational leap in graphics. That term gets thrown around so often for PC versions of games that I wonder if the meaning of the phrase has now changed.

 

[chris1515]

The RT in CP2077 or even watchdogs is having advantages not seen in the PS games. On PS5 its due to the lower specced RT performance probably close to 2060S. Something like 2077 is so far ahead its not even a comparison. RT in spiderman is just the reflections to begin with.




Hm yes, whats on Xbox is generally also on PC Dont forget star citizen as a pure graphical showcase either. No RT but its looking damn great anyway. It should have RT, though.



The PS5 version of CP2077 isnt even close, its basically the PS4 version jacked up somewhat.



Maybe, Battlefield has pushed boundaries before.



As a PC user, i hope it will be awesome graphically. Its my favourite setting (tropical paradise basically ) and its the only studio i have personal relatives to. That, and theres good chance there will be a pc version. But day one its PS5 for me (the sole reason i got one).



Because its not a PS exclusive, for many. Not all, but for many. It doesnt matter, we will see the DF awards of what was the best looking game this year



Thanks. /thread




And let ampere be just that monster for it, it has alot of compute power for engines like UE5 tech demo.



2016 hardware should be imo, its closer to the base consoles of 2013 then to PS5/XSX



Oof, you better wait for PS6 then (if that ever makes it to the market) 10TF of rdna2 and 2060S ray tracing perf wont be your thing i think.

And I compare RT reflection to RT reflection. This has nothing to do with power if it is possible on PS5, this is possible on every GPU with hardware based raytracing. This is just in my opinion a much better compromise. Other thinks probably differently. On more powerful GPU you can do the same thing with less compromise.

 

[pjbliverpool]

2016 hardware should be imo, its closer to the base consoles of 2013 then to PS5/XSX

I wouldn't go that far lol. According to TPU the 1070 is 314% faster than the R7 265 (which is basically the PS4 GPU). Meanwhile even the 6800 (comfortably faster than the PS5) is only classed as 206% faster than the 1070. Certainly the 1070 is much closer to the mid gen consoles than it is the the new gen.

Is it true that in Call of Duty Cold War the consoles are performing above 2070 level with RT turned on?

Are there any sources for that? I'd certainly be curious to see them. I imagine Alex would give us the best view of that but presumably his time is quite strained at the moment!

We went through this same cycle last gen.

Out of interest what do you consider the proxys?

 

[pjbliverpool]

I absolutely agree on the scale and density holding up to some extent. With the exception of specific rendering features I disagree that the graphics will hold up.

We probably just disagree (or even just misunderstand each other) on the meaning of the term "hold up". I don't expect CB2077 to be in the top 5 graphical showpieces 2 years from now. Or even the top 10. But will it still be considered a good looking game? I imagine so.

 

[PSman1700]

I wouldn't go that far lol. According to TPU the 1070 is 314% faster than the R7 265 (which is basically the PS4 GPU). Meanwhile even the 6800 (comfortably faster than the PS5) is only classed as 206% faster than the 1070. Certainly the 1070 is much closer to the mid gen consoles than it is the the new gen.

I ment in time-frame

Out of interest what do you consider the proxys?

PC had the best looking games during PS4 generation in the end, maybe thats what he ment.

We probably just disagree (or even just misunderstand each other) on the meaning of the term "hold up". I don't expect CB2077 to be in the top 5 graphical showpieces 2 years from now. Or even the top 10. But will it still be considered a good looking game? I imagine so.

Its graphically the most impressive title by far now. If its going to be surpassed in two years time we are in for a hell of a ride.

 

[techuse]

Out of interest what do you consider the proxys?

Far Cry 3, Battlefield 4, Black Flag, Last Light etc. All those games were praised as being generational leaps in graphics for the PC version. None of them held up well at all passed the cross gen period.

We probably just disagree (or even just misunderstand each other) on the meaning of the term "hold up". I don't expect CB2077 to be in the top 5 graphical showpieces 2 years from now. Or even the top 10. But will it still be considered a good looking game? I imagine so.

It's certainly hard to have any objective quantification of the term "holding up." I just expect it to look quite dated as a whole. Same way the games I listed above look quite dated next to more modern games of the same generation. Maybe a good way to explain my view, if either console is able to notably surpass the net visual sum of what cyberpunk offers on a 3090, it's hard for me to consider the latter a generational leap in graphics. The gap in hardware capability is just too great to ignore such a disparity.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Far Cry 3, Battlefield 4, Black Flag, Last Light etc. All those games were praised as being generational leaps in graphics for the PC version. None of them held up well at all passed the cross gen period.

I think we're debating on cross purposes. I'm not saying that CB2077 will necessarily stand as a beacon of next gen graphics for the next several years - for all our sakes I hope it doesn't. I'm simply saying that right now, today... it's the clearest example of the "next generation" of graphics that we have. And I expect it to hold up fairly well for at least the next couple of years. Likely better than the games you cited above to be fair as none of those where ever considered generationally significant graphical showpieces.

 

[techuse]

I think we're debating on cross purposes. I'm not saying that CB2077 will necessarily stand as a beacon of next gen graphics for the next several years - for all our sakes I hope it doesn't. I'm simply saying that right now, today... it's the clearest example of the "next generation" of graphics that we have. And I expect it to hold up fairly well for at least the next couple of years. Likely better than the games you cited above to be fair as none of those where ever considered generationally significant graphical showpieces.

They may not have been considered generational leaps by you, but they were heralded as such by many. I agree that today it's the best example of next generation. I still don't consider it a generational leap. I don't think we have seen that yet.

GTA V is another game I remember the PC version being described as a generational leap. Hell, tons of PC gamers described Witcher 3 on PC as a generational leap over the console versions.

 

[Svensk Viking]

I do think Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4 were looked at fondly for the time because they actually were different than the console versions. The PC version supported 64 players, the console versions were stuck at 24. They also supposedly had smaller maps, as well as lower than lowest possible graphics on PC.
Even at the time though, I did feel Bad Company 2 felt more next gen due to its more destructible environments.

But IMO we just don't have the same kind of generational leaps anymore. Today it's mostly about graphics and not anything you'd call game changing. I even find many cases of what Digitalfoundry loves to be meh, wouldn't notice in actual gameplay.
Go back to the PS2/Xbox era and the Far Cry games were actually completely different games to the PC version. DOOM 3 also had remade levels, as well as low settings (not sure if lower than lowest though). Half-Life 2 supposedly had more of these game-pausing loading sequences on the Xbox than the PC version. Compare the PS2 and GC versions of the Splinter Cell games and they also had remade levels and looked vastly different than PC and Xbox.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I do think Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4 were looked at fondly for the time because they actually were different than the console versions. The PC version supported 64 players, the console versions were stuck at 24. They also supposedly had smaller maps, as well as lower than lowest possible graphics on PC.
Even at the time though, I did feel Bad Company 2 felt more next gen due to its more destructible environments.

But IMO we just don't have the same kind of generational leaps anymore. Today it's mostly about graphics and not anything you'd call game changing. I even find many cases of what Digitalfoundry loves to be meh, wouldn't notice in actual gameplay.
Go back to the PS2/Xbox era and the Far Cry games were actually completely different games to the PC version. DOOM 3 also had remade levels, as well as low settings (not sure if lower than lowest though). Half-Life 2 supposedly had more of these game-pausing loading sequences on the Xbox than the PC version. Compare the PS2 and GC versions of the Splinter Cell games and they also had remade levels and looked vastly different than PC and Xbox.

Yes I totally agree, Diminishing returns continues to kick in more and more. Comparing this generation even to just the last isn't really that representative.

 

[dten]

Battlefield is actually a good example. BF3 came out in 2013. BF4 in 2019. While you can see the improvements in BF4, they're both PS4 gen games clearly. Likewise if there is a Cyberpunk sequel in 2026, there's lots of room for improvement like shadowing and skins, but both will be clearly PS5 gen games--talking about RT versions of course. I think that's all people are saying.

 

[techuse]

Battlefield is actually a good example. BF3 came out in 2013. BF4 in 2019. While you can see the improvements in BF4, they're both PS4 gen games clearly. Likewise if there is a Cyberpunk sequel in 2026, there's lots of room for improvement like shadowing and skins, but both will be clearly PS5 gen games--talking about RT versions of course. I think that's all people are saying.

I'm assuming you mean to compare BF4 and BFV?

BF4 PS4

BFV PS4

It was a pretty large improvement. BF4 looks very dated by comparison. Even the PC version on max settings looks quite dated.

BF4 PC

BF4 fares even worse compared to BF One which was overall a better looking game than BFV. Especially on consoles.