A Generational Leap in Graphics [2020] *Spawn*

was that on a 120 inch screen with a 7.1 setup though?

 

No it wasnt on a 120'' TV, not even half that size. But i doubt it would do the game any good seeing the rather low resolution for such a large panel anyway (and no decent reconstruction going on). I havent played the PC version on such a large screen either. Both versions where observed on TVs not far from each other in terms of specs.
A screen can only do so much, the game on PS5 isn't all that 'next-gen', and heres where the most of the comments about the game looking last gen are coming from, as pointed out by Alex on this very forum.

For the audio that was on a 7.1 setup but on low (er) volume and most likely not calibrated as it should, so cant really comment on that one, as in pc vs PS5. I give the benefit of the doubt to the pc version since it supports dolby atmos, which does enhance the audio immersion, in special with a decent pair of headphones. Since the PS5 lacks atmos il give that one to the pc, too.
CP2077 isnt only the best looking game of the year, its also the best sounding. Ask/view others opinions here that share the same idea that played it on pc with an identical setup.

 

you'll be good, it looks very good even in it's ps4 pro form, and runs great 90% of the time, but sure it'll be a good excuse for a replay when the proper PS5 version launches.

 

I'm not impressed either.

In my opinion, the Spiderman remaster looks slightly better on PS5 (i didn't see enough footage of Miles Morales).



But i would say it's mainly because the image looks more stable to me.

 

At least Spiderman has a reflection. The character in 2077 doesn't not have one

Btw I said that during driving the reflections are perfect. This is a 6 year old game.


Think about it, a six year old game... your computer could not run this is realtime if it were fully raytraced. Thank god the developers had the talent to give us realistic reflections with photorealistic graphics back in 2014.

Otherwise the game would look like this:


The PC equivalent would look like need for speed 1 but with raytracing.

 

PC worshipers are the worst.

And to think that one year from now we'll have games with the same "advanced" effects as Cyberscam 2020 has (even on consoles) but with better final results that will make it look dated.

 

This reads like a "flamebait" post. Drive club's SSR Shows Tons of typical SSR Problems. Heck - it is not even the best SSR in real time rendering - by a long shot. What on earth is it doing in this thread and in his context here?
The Level of discourse in this thread is rather abyssmal.

 

SSR in DC was a good step up other cubemaps from the PS360 gen, but it's not in the same league as RT reflections, even simplier quality RT seen in spiderman.
DC still looks good in motion, i really love this old school gameplay game. But once you stop and start looking around, you notice the low res textures, IQ problems, etc...

CP77 is all about high details everywhere when free roaming around.

 

Sweet I have posted about this game like 3x times now downplaying its graphics
My chief point is it doesnt have realtime radiosity, at no moment do I look at it and have to pause and ask myself , is this real? Not even for a fraction of a second
The spiderman games suffer the same problem, (yes the raytracing is better) but I am not fooled not even for a nanosecond, use this raytracing to give me realistic lighting, not some ooooh shiny lets look at these reflections ... btw cyberpunk I didnt notice 'me' being reflected in the cars/buildings ... huh, OK yes you have toi change your rendering routine so its like Im always there acting out whats on screen.
I never got the love for Driveclub also yes its very nice theres water runnning down the screen, but ppl become enamoured with this crap, give me realistic graphics at 1080p. Also voxels give me 3d depth, make me feel like I exist in this world, I can walk maround touch and interact with stuff.
Im not talking about AI or whatever, I was watching a cyberpunk video today, where this 'hand' was walking down the street with a gun drawn and everyone was like hey its a nice day today. Me - mate I have a gun here. We are so far away from reALISM

 

don't want all games to try to go the "realism" route, realism is often boring. Like sim games.

 

For the game it was sufficient and vastly superior to any other alternative. Unless 30 FPS was not low enough

Same with FS2020: “The graphics are pretty bad as they lack raytracing and they don’t even have DX12” is not something anybody in their right mind should say

 

You really need to expand your mindset to 2077 when Cyberpunk takes place. I guess you would also find talking androids and flying vehicles peculiar.

 

We could probably all do with being a bit more respectful and even headed.

I'm not sure you really understand what Cyberpunk is doing with regards to Ray Tracing. You can be certain you won't be seeing that level of RT on this generation of consoles. That doesn't mean that developers won't find ways to do more with less and create games that are visually more stunning than CP2077, probably within a pretty short timescale. But neither console has anywhere near (like absolutely no-where near) the RT horsepower to match what CP2077 is doing maxed out.

 

Both the remaster and MM look very last gen-ish, its a pure cross-gen games and it shows in every way. Playing 2077 and turning back to MM and its a day and night difference. MM has 'RT' atleast lol, only for relfections, low quality at that. Its what we pc gamers got in 2018 in BFV but better. Late to the party basically, but worse results.

The best post so far i have encountered. The frustration in this post (worshipers, cyberscam), including outlandish claimes that other games will make 2077 pc look dated make the post complete. One then can locate the problem. Its frustration and dissapointment.

Couldnt agree more. Its a longtime member (dont mind his registration date).

The RT in spiderman isnt 'better', its a implementation of a technology gone to waste there, imo.

I think the 'problem' is that the leap in hardware is the smallest ever so far for the Playstation.
Going from PS3 to PS4 was a much larger jump, the GPU got a 10x increase in raw power (192gflops to 1.84TF), bandwith got a massive increase too, about 8 times, from 20gb/s to 176gb/s. The ram amount went from 512mb gddr3, (256 dedicated to vram) to 8GB GDDR5.
Even the CPU was arguably a much bigger jump going from PS3 to 4. From the anemic in-oder Cell with one 'real' core to a out-order X86 8 core cpu. In raw power it was four times more powerfull, but also much more efficient, an architectural jump. Also, from PS3 to PS4, the resolution bump wasnt all that large (PS4 still targetted 1080p).

From PS4 to PS5, its the smallest jump for PS ever, the GPU (the most important thing for gaming) is about 5x incease, the bandwith only abit over 2x increase, the main ram about only got doubled aswell (8 to 16). The CPU isnt the same jump either, even though its the largest increase according to DF).
The PS5 also suffers from going from a 1080p to 1440p/4k resolution increase, throw in mid gens and its all even worse.
Yes theres the IO subsystem, but with the rather huge resolution increase, assets, textures, everything grow larger too. Also, the system is rather low on bandwith to begin with.

Throw in ray tracing and performance levels go down drastically for some relfections, even for future games.
We shouldnt either forget the new strategy of crossgen games, with the Sony boss basically claiming a 3 to 4 year cross-gen period. More and more sony games coming to pc (also something sony themselfs mentioned), and what we actually see happening.

Then we have the PC, lightning fast zen3 processors, close to 25TF RDNA2 products with infinity cache, or the Ampere gpus with their ray tracing/reconstruction prowess, 7gb/s nvme solutions already and much faster coming due to DS. Cyberpunk (awarded best graphics to date), FS2020, and even SC are those that have the ability to flex muscles on systems with those components.

Suddenly, things like this make sense. worshipers are the worst

 

I would not be too sure about that. Historically, or should I say artistically, console titles have always had the best use of technology. CP2077 is an early generation RT title. Pre-generation if you will. There will be a lot of optimisations for future titles, and once the AAA-tier studios start using it then this would become even more clear.

People earlier in this thread claimed Witcher 3 was regarded as a looker.. Well, now you can look at it and one could laugh at the simplistic graphics and animations. I don't think that CP2077 will ever look funny like that, at least not in 6 years. But developers will certainly improve upon it.
Having played the game now, what impresses me the most is the visual density and how seamless it is. Especially in the beginning. Riding an elevator I was in awe when I realised I could look outside while going up or down, where in previous games it would be a loading section.

looking at this again, I think cutting performance more than half for PC is not worth it:

The context is that it is the most convincing/photorealistic wet road ever rendered in a racing game.
Sure, you can analyse the resolution of the reflections and point out flaws. But the overall package is still unsurpassed. And they did it without raytracing.

FS2020 also does not have raytracing btw. Games can still look great without it, even though all games will have it

 

I miss @ShiftyGeezer, this is a fucking shambles.

...with the exception of a few older members' comments...

 

I'm not arguing that there won't be games which exceed CB2077's visuals over the next few years. I'd bet my mortgage that there will be. But I am reasonably sure that none of those games will be implementing RT to the same extent as the PC version of CB2077 on the consoles. The capability simply isn't there. That doesn't mean games can't still look better without it as you've argued above and as the UE5 demo hints at. But the argument put forward by @Panino Manino was that the console would present the same effects, with better results.

CB2077 implements RT reflections, RT ambient occlusion, RT shadows, RT diffuse illumination. and most impressively, real time RT global illumination. All at the same time. These settings are able to bring a 3090 with roughly 3x the real world RT performance of the PS5 down to sub 30fps framerates at 1440p without reconstruction. There's simply no way that level of RT implementation will be seen in this generation of consoles.

That video undersells the value of RT until this point IMO:



And while that's just one segment of the video, you can spend hours in areas like this while actually playing the game. For me, this difference is transformative. The game still looks incredible without RT though as I found out for myself yesterday.

 

One can assume games are going to look better (aside from RT), then CP2077 with normal rendering down the line. Those might be things like the new doom, the next Rockstar game (they delivered the best during last gen with RDR2, according to DF), the next Battlefield, where pc versions can utilize RT to the max and blow us away like CP2077 does, along with beyond ultra settings. So yeah, games are going to surpass this down the line. You need the hardware though.

Also to not forget normal rendering, which alone is/or is going to be very heavy on the GPU, even without ray tracing going on. True next generation titles (whatever that might be), are going to be quite heavy on the ~10TF gpus. Its rendering and ray tracing. A 3090 has massive amounts of normal rendering power, aside from its RT hardware. Look at CP2077 maxed beyond ultra to physco, without RT. Its already quite taxing on a 30+TF gpu.
Games that are going to look much better then CP2077 in normal rendering eat awhole lot of the GPUs performance already.

 

This is NXGamer top 7 best graphics of the year. CP2077 is not even in the top 7 (while MSFS 2020 deservedly is ). It's just an example of opinion (and he explains his choices and why CP2077 has only an honorable mention) but CP2077 being touted as the best graphics of the year by some doesn't make unanimity, far from it.

 

DF's list is much a better one.